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Unauthorized AEF Ribbons & Decorations


world war I nerd
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world war I nerd

That's a good question regarding the American Field Service and Red Cross ribbons. I wish I knew the answer.

 

But that, along with the following, are exactly the type of questions I'm trying to figure out with this thread:

 

1. What ribbons, both official and unofficial, were actually being worn on the uniforms of returning American Doughboys in 1919?

2. Which of the ribbons that were worn in 1919, were fully sanctioned by the War Department?

3. Where did the unofficial ribbons originate?

4. What did the unofficial ribbons represent?

5. Were the unofficial ribbons received as gifts, sold as souvenirs or obtained by other means?

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I'll add my 2 cents to the discussion. From my experience in handling a number of the common 2-ribbon bars world war I nerd showed in the first post in this thread, I agree with the general consensus that the "allied colors" ribbon was most likely and unofficial Victory Medal ribbon worn until stocks of the real thing became available.

 

However, one cannot discount that some of them could be ribbons for local WWI service medals. Richard Plant in his book on State, County, City and Organization Medals calls this one by the name used in this thread: the "allied colors ribbon".

 

Below are two examples from my collection -- Manchester CT on the left and Doylestown, PA on the right.

 

You'll note that the ribbons are reversed for each medal as assembled by the manufacturer.

post-1496-0-97883100-1455510922.jpg

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There were also single ribbon bars made for this ribbon and the more frequently encountered red/white/blue ribbon found on the majority of the local medals.

 

Here are a couple more showing the fronts and backs:

 

 

post-1496-0-30050400-1455511174.jpg

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One other combination I've seen a number of times is the official Victory Medal ribbon with the American Legion medal.

 

Here is a picture of one in my collection on the uniform of a Captain, 126th Infantry, 32nd Division. I acquired the uniform came with the ribbon bar attached as shown.

 

 

post-1496-0-05537100-1455511581.jpg

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Finally, here is a bar with the official Victory Medal ribbon with one star and the New York State WWI Service Medal. I suspect this was frequently seen on the uniforms of New York National Guard members after the war.

 

 

post-1496-0-67493600-1455511894.jpg

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world war I nerd

Thank you Dennis for reminding me - and us, that the ribbons used on the unofficial Inter-Allied Victory medals were also used on many of the state, county and city victory / commemorative medals that were issued post war in the U.S.

 

I had noticed that fact, but failed to mention it.

 

According to the Australian War Memorial website:

 

Before the official [inter-Allied Medal] ribbon was approved a number of commercial companies created their own versions of what they thought the Victory Medal ribbon could look like. These unofficial ribbons often combined the flags or colors from the flags of many of the victorious nations.

 

Small lengths of the unofficial ribbon were sold for mounting on medal ribbon bars so they could be worn while the men waited for their [official victory] medals to be issued.

 

Attached is a swatch of the multi-colored ribbon cloth (borrowed from the Aussi website) that was used to make the temporary victory medal ribbons.

 

PS, Thanks again Dennis for the photo of the American Legion ribbon as that was another one of my "unidentified" ribbons that has yet to be posted.

post-5143-0-61539100-1455512584.jpg

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...
world war I nerd

12thengr, it's really tough to make out what the ribbons might actually be because the photos are so small.

 

It looks as if the center ribbon could be the green and yellow Mexican Border Service ribbon.

 

One of the other two ribbons is likely a WW I Victory Medal ribbon.

 

The third ribbon is unidentifiable due to the posted photos size.

 

Can you post a larger image of either or both photos?

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I just don't know if I would call these medals unauthorized. So many recognized American service medals up through the early 20th Century were actually some sort of commemorative medals that were allowed to be worn.

 

For that matter, New York Service Medals are not always National Guard Medals even though award may be through the State Division of Military and Naval Affairs.

 

There are three contemporary medals: The NYS Conspicuous Service Cross, the NYS Conspicuous Service Star and the Medal for Merit that are awarded to veterans who are current or former NYS residents upon application. All of these medals were created by formal act of the State Legislature, not by the State Adjutant General. These medals, more often than not, are worn by retirees if they can still fit into their uniforms or on the uniforms of the various veterans groups.

 

It's possible that the one NYS World War I Medal is to a veteran, not necessarly a former National Guardsman -- even though it could also be from a uniform of a National Guardsman who was mobilized for active duty.

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post-32632-0-27461100-1461366134.jpg Yah, my photo skills and or equipment options are not gonna make this much clearer. I can say that this private seems to be a bit older than others in this 200+ man Company. There did turn out to be one other individual with what could have been a decoration in the correct spot but with the fading and reflection of the photo it could have been a tiny brass name tag also. :)
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  • 2 weeks later...

The only ribbon worn by the 80th Division Doughboy on the left is that of the (European made?) Inter-Allied Victory Medal, while the 7th Division Doughboy's three place ribbon rack is made up of the unofficial Inter-Allied Victory Medal, an unknown ribbon and the official Inter-Allied Victory Medal.

 

Can anybody identify the unknown ribbon?

 

 

 

 

Doughboy photos courtesy of the John Adam-Graf collection

 

I believe the unknown ribbon is the WW I Army of Occupation Medal.

 

I really find it interesting that so many of these WW I guys are wearing American Legion and VFW ribbons/medals on their uniforms -- as opposed to the WW I Victory Medal.

 

The Legion is now almost a century old and is actually organized in Europe as a means to promote comradery among the doughboys who were still in France, doing occupation duty while awaiting shipment home.

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Could not be. The Army of Occupation medal was not instituted until 1941. The ribbon bar could be obtained at that time and worn, but the medal itself did not come out until about 1945-46.

 

"I believe the unknown ribbon is the WW I Army of Occupation Medal."

 

 

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Really?

 

I may not be completely accurate about the name but what's this?

 

Seems to match the ribbon in the photo.

post-154325-0-33723400-1462716123.png

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Really?

 

What's this?

 

Really, indeed. The ribbon bar for that medal could not have been worn before 1941. The Army of Occupation of Germany Medal was established 21 Nov 1941, 1941. Ribbon bars were made and could be worn from 1941 by eligible persons, but the medals were not produced until 1945-46. I don't believe I was unclear in my first post.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
JMcCulloch

To add a few factoids to this discussion:

1. The multi-colored Allied victory ribbon was manufactured by both British and French and by 1919, American ribbon companies. The originals were based upon popular and common " Allied flag colors combined" ribbons sold or given away at bond rallies.

2. A complete silk British roll of the 1919 " Allied Victory Ribbon" was for sale on eBay a few years back. I believe it was made in Birmingham and of a silk/cotton mix and came complete with label and date. Google it- it may still be there in the ether somewhere. Some photos exist of British soldiers wearing these ribbons before the official ("Versailles") Victory medal design was negotiated and agreed upon. British/ Canadian ribbon bars also exist with this unofficial " Allied" ribbon on them.

3. The VFW actually had " recruiting officers" at demobilization camps. I have seen a letter in the Maine Historical archives ( or UNE) recounting a military carpenter being " handed a VFW ribbon and an application card" as he stepped away from the paymasters' table at Camp Devens.

4. My own grandfather did not buy the ribbon, but signed on to go home in late 1919 and was given a discharge button. He also got a VFW medal and ribbon and when I asked him about it said, " they gave it to me as I went out the door". I did not clarify if he meant ribbon and medal, but safe to say, a ribbon was cheaper.

5. the odd blue/red/white ribbon was the special ribbon for the Russian AEF veterans' group. The Kennebunk Brick Store Museum has the uniform of the famous author, Kenneth Roberts on display with this ribbon on it. He was an intelligence officer in Murmansk. The ribbon was sometimes used as a VFW color guard ribbon as well. It is also the same as the Serbian " retreat" to Kosovo medal, but only a few AFS people were awarded that ribbon.

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JMcCulloch

Here is an example of a Canadian bar from @1924-25 ( it came with a Quebecois family grouping) .

post-4995-0-31310400-1464127758.jpeg

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It bears repeating that yellow or cream colors came out as very dark in a lot of the old silver-emulsion photographs of the time.

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I was reading through this thread the other day and came across something on ebay that stood out. Not sure if this helps your research but here is a Doylestown, PA Red Cross medal that matches the ribbons posted.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Original-Doylestown-Pennsylvania-Red-Cross-WWI-Victory-Service-Medal-Named-/381645930972?hash=item58dbdec1dc:g:DB0AAOSwwPhWhzOU

 

s-l1600.jpgs-l1600.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
JMcCulloch

1. Another factoid is that the American Legion was founded during the AEF doldrums days in France in the early Spring of 1919. It was legally formalized in the USA by the Summer of 1919 and the members' badges and ribbons were copyrighted in December, 1919. Members badges/ ribbons were sold/ awarded as early as October, 1919 for $1.

The Legion was initially for WW1 vets only and was enormously popular. It had 4 million members by 1922.

A Legion ribbon in a later photo almost certainly indicates a Reserve or National Guard member, esp. officers. According to the American Legion magazine, despite the badge being authorized by the War Department, very few active regular officers or men joined. Many regular officers were in the older, more prestegious VFW instead.

2. It is notable that there were THREE different versions ( maybe more) of the unofficial Allied Victory ribbon above.

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mikes militaria

post-154336-0-20404200-1465427771.jpg

 

Here's one that should be mentioned, the UDC WW1 Southern Cross of Honor. Awarded to WW1 Veterans that have ancestors that served in the Confederate Military. Not pictured in the previous posts but was probably worn by many Vets. The medal on the left is a WW1 service medal from Mobile Alabama. A very probable unauthorized combination.

 

I gave these two medals to my mother who is a Member of the UDC and she was born in Mobile.

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