JerseyDevil117 Posted February 12, 2016 Share #1 Posted February 12, 2016 Pick up this airborne tab awhile back and i cant find any info on it. By the colors im guessing it is highly likely it was worn over the 24 ID, 25 ID, or macv? Anyone know what era this is? Also what was it worn over? In the picture below i have it over a 12th division patch just for comparison of the colors. The airborne letters on the back are white so im guessing the yellow was added, possibly in theater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyDevil117 Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share #2 Posted February 12, 2016 more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyDevil117 Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share #3 Posted February 12, 2016 detailed pictures of the tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted February 12, 2016 Share #4 Posted February 12, 2016 Baffling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtdorango Posted February 12, 2016 Share #5 Posted February 12, 2016 hmmm at first i thought the 108th airborne, with the red and yellow patch with lion/dragon but it seems they used the same colored tab as the 101st....mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyDevil117 Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share #6 Posted February 12, 2016 When i bought it, it was over a 108th. But IMHO it didnt look right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharfmaster Posted February 12, 2016 Share #7 Posted February 12, 2016 187th and 503rd Airborne, 24th Division ? Wharf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted February 12, 2016 Share #8 Posted February 12, 2016 It looks like a case of somebody ruining the tab by coloring the letters in with a highlighter. Note evidence of white threads on the edges of the lettering on the front and the lack of yellow threads showing on the rear. This is how I read it with the photos provided. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyDevil117 Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share #9 Posted February 12, 2016 I just checked the patch in person and ski you nailed it. I dont know why i never thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted February 12, 2016 Share #10 Posted February 12, 2016 Yes, Teamski nailed it. The letters have been changed from red to yellow. Now for the questions as to when and why was it done? At this point, I will disagree with Ski as I don't necessarily think the that tab has been ruined (at least not yet). USUALLY, the red tab with white letters is associated with the IX Airborne Engineers, and we have photographic evidence that there were two different and distinct patterns of tabs. This "straight sided" type which is the standard, and the "wedge type" where the sides narrow from the top to the bottom of the tab. Off the top of my head, the only other use of the red and white airborne tab was some limited use by field artillery units assigned to the 11th Airborne Division. The 127th Engineers wore a white tab with red letters at the same time. Is it possible that the tab was modified for wear by someone in an ordnance unit? This is only speculation on my part, so I hope someone doesn't get the bright idea that this is a definitive ID. It is also possible that it was done sometime after WWII and worn in conjunction with a totally different unit, like the 24th or 25th Infantry Divisions, or by someone wanting to wear it over a MACV patch. Since we don't know anything for sure, I think we should just classify the tab as an unknown for the time being. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted February 12, 2016 Share #11 Posted February 12, 2016 Yes, Teamski nailed it. The letters have been changed from red to yellow. Now for the questions as to when and why was it done? At this point, I will disagree with Ski as I don't necessarily think the that tab has been ruined (at least not yet). USUALLY, the red tab with white letters is associated with the IX Airborne Engineers, and we have photographic evidence that there were two different and distinct patterns of tabs. This "straight sided" type which is the standard, and the "wedge type" where the sides narrow from the top to the bottom of the tab. Off the top of my head, the only other use of the red and white airborne tab was some limited use by field artillery units assigned to the 11th Airborne Division. The 127th Engineers wore a white tab with red letters at the same time. Is it possible that the tab was modified for wear by someone in an ordnance unit? This is only speculation on my part, so I hope someone doesn't get the bright idea that this is a definitive ID. It is also possible that it was done sometime after WWII and worn in conjunction with a totally different unit, like the 24th or 25th Infantry Divisions, or by someone wanting to wear it over a MACV patch. Since we don't know anything for sure, I think we should just classify the tab as an unknown for the time being. Allan I disagree. The only color that can soak in like that on white thread is yellow highlighter, something that has only been around for maybe 30 or so years. There is no other explanation for this patch. To try to concoct a story that it could of have been done by some soldier is misleading IMHO. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted February 12, 2016 Share #12 Posted February 12, 2016 I disagree. The only color that can soak in like that on white thread is yellow highlighter, something that has only been around for maybe 30 or so years. There is no other explanation for this patch. To try to concoct a story that it could of have been done by some soldier is misleading IMHO. -Ski While speculative, Allan H. said "don't get the bright idea that this is a definitive ID". He tries to see the positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted February 12, 2016 Share #13 Posted February 12, 2016 Ski, I evidently don't have as much experience with the changing of colors on patches, so finding out that this is a highlighter, is a bit disconcerting, though I have seen more than a few white tongue 101st patches that have had the tongue colors changed to every shade of red from crimson to pink. If you think the patch was modified to deceive, then that is good that you are warning those who could potentially be duped by such a piece. I still think that there is a potential that the color could have been changed by a soldier for a specific reason, rather than by a collector/ dealer who wanted to make some extra bucks on the sale of a "red and yellow" tab. Just to be clear, I don't feel that I have concocted any sort of story here. I have simply added information that I felt could be germane to the discussion. I have learned over time to not go rushing in proclaiming that something is a fake, unless it is being advertised as something that it is not in order to deceive. I didn't take that to be the case when the discussion started. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted February 12, 2016 Share #14 Posted February 12, 2016 Ski, I evidently don't have as much experience with the changing of colors on patches, so finding out that this is a highlighter, is a bit disconcerting, though I have seen more than a few white tongue 101st patches that have had the tongue colors changed to every shade of red from crimson to pink. If you think the patch was modified to deceive, then that is good that you are warning those who could potentially be duped by such a piece. I still think that there is a potential that the color could have been changed by a soldier for a specific reason, rather than by a collector/ dealer who wanted to make some extra bucks on the sale of a "red and yellow" tab. Just to be clear, I don't feel that I have concocted any sort of story here. I have simply added information that I felt could be germane to the discussion. I have learned over time to not go rushing in proclaiming that something is a fake, unless it is being advertised as something that it is not in order to deceive. I didn't take that to be the case when the discussion started. Allan I understand that. I have always gone by the adage that you buy the item and not the story. I know of no coloring agent that would soak into the threads that creates a yellow color like this other than a highlighter. Paint wouldn't soak into the fibers so consistently or as bright, thus my estimation that a highlighter was used. As you know, we have seen TONS of modified patches and I always question ones with color changes to include those 17th airborne patches with the red claws...... Too easy to do. As an all or nothing guy, I cannot see anything good with a tab like this with no documented history. It is ripe for exploiting some overzealous airborne collector who is willing to throw money at anything. Just me, I know. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted February 12, 2016 Share #15 Posted February 12, 2016 Not having much experience marking up patches, but I used highlighters in HS in the 60s and college in the 70s. Some readers might need to be reminded that many a 1st Cav Div trooper marked up his SSI in VN c. 1966, making them "subdued". They weren't painting them, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
468abnarm Posted February 12, 2016 Share #16 Posted February 12, 2016 When i bought it, it was over a 108th. But IMHO it didnt look right. It is very possible that it was made to go over a 108th SSI. All the OR Airborne Divisions seem to have had "strange" tabs over them as well as the standards. 80th had green and light blue, 84th had red and white, 100th had blue and yellow, & though I don't own one nor have I ever seen one, why could not some young troop have used India ink to modify the tab for his 108th patch? Again, just thinking out loud here. I can not tell from the photo but does the tab show any signs of having ever been sewn on to something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34BDQ Posted February 12, 2016 Share #17 Posted February 12, 2016 During the later part of the war MACVSOG wore that tab over a MACV SSI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Scott Posted February 12, 2016 Share #18 Posted February 12, 2016 I think someone did it to see what it would look like not to deceive.If deceiving was what it was done for he would have done the back also.I also do not think it was done with a yellow highlighter.I just took a yellow highlighter to an extra 82nd tab see the results.We see Airborne tabs with different colors on the top of the letters and the bottoms of them why not gold like the tab that started this thread.Any kid with a water based paint set and a steady hand could do one in purple if he wanted one.I do not think it matters who did it we had a good talk about the possibilities though.And just to show I am a nice guy I only want 150.00 for my dual toned blue tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
468abnarm Posted February 12, 2016 Share #19 Posted February 12, 2016 I think someone did it to see what it would look like not to deceive.If deceiving was what it was done for he would have done the back also.I also do not think it was done with a yellow highlighter.I just took a yellow highlighter to an extra 82nd tab see the results.We see Airborne tabs with different colors on the top of the letters and the bottoms of them why not gold like the tab that started this thread.Any kid with a water based paint set and a steady hand could do one in purple if he wanted one.I do not think it matters who did it we had a good talk about the possibilities though.And just to show I am a nice guy I only want 150.00 for my dual toned blue tab. Bill, Don't have the money on hand to buy that rare "two tone" tab but do have the equally rare "purple" version you alluded to for trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillock Posted February 12, 2016 Share #20 Posted February 12, 2016 I think someone did it to see what it would look like not to deceive.If deceiving was what it was done for he would have done the back also.I also do not think it was done with a yellow highlighter.I just took a yellow highlighter to an extra 82nd tab see the results.We see Airborne tabs with different colors on the top of the letters and the bottoms of them why not gold like the tab that started this thread.Any kid with a water based paint set and a steady hand could do one in purple if he wanted one.I do not think it matters who did it we had a good talk about the possibilities though.And just to show I am a nice guy I only want 150.00 for my dual toned blue tab. worth every cent by a true artisan Bill michelangelo. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Scott Posted February 12, 2016 Share #21 Posted February 12, 2016 The only true art work I can do is Stick People but I do like that purple on blue tab.Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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