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Early American Cavalry Saber?


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Hello!
Just picked up this early American cavalry saber. Examples with similar patriotic motifs and " honour and country" engravings have been identified as French imports Ca. 1810, though I have yet to find one with a similar handle. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Nick

 

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Nick Welcome to the forum. I know that about a month ago you were trying (on the Sword Forum) to find out if this was a USMC sword and if it had been rehilted with an old blade. Did you "for the most part" confirm Marine useage? Richard

Wanted: WWI ID'ed USMC Green Wool Uniform and ANYTHING documented to my Dad's Iwo Jima outfit: 21st Marines 3rd Div.

Items marked "Marquet, Marquett, or Marquette"

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

As I recall, there was an article on these sabers in Man At Arms magazine several years ago.

 

Is the hilt cast iron?

 

Some had a ribbed grip, and the blades, while appear to be shortened are regulation.

 

As I recall, they were from a Philadelphia Cavalry Militia, circa 1815.

 

I'll have to dig around and see what I can find.

 

I also believe here were one or two in the Guthman sale some years back.

 

Nice saber.

 

When I locate my info, I'll post it.

I have too much stuff!

 

Revolutionary War through Korea.

 

Lots of field gear, some uniforms and "one or two" medals and a bit of insignia. Plus lots of odds and ends, too many and varied to go into detail here. Just ask and I'll try to help. Who knows? Maybe we can work something out!

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These iron-hilted sabers are usually associated with the Philadelphia area as imports from Solingen just after the War of 1812, when we still liked French inspired designs. Mowbray, The American Eagle-Pommel Sword, talks about them on page 168-170. He illustrates one with the same blade, but a slightly different pommel, that has "F.L. No. 5" engraved in the grip, which is thought to represent a militia troop titled the "Federal Lancers." The blade on that one is short, 27 inches, as this one appears to be, which he recognizes as rather short for a cavalry saber, but thinks okay as a lancer's secondary weapon. Though, since they were mostly going to be drawn on parades, it may not have mattered much.

There were all-metal eagle hilts cast over here, but they tend to be brass. That is the reason for thinking that this sword was brought over in its present form, rather than just the blade being imported and the mounting of the hilt done here. Mowbray shows one of the brass hilts that he calls the "Widmann-Horstmann" type on page 196. The US Marine Corps used this type for musicians in two lengths, described as for musicians and boy musicians. This does not mean, though, that any sword with an all metal eagle hilt is a marine sword, or even those with such brass hilts are all marine swords.

In this case, the best description is probably something like an 1815-1820 militia short saber with a patriotic eagle hilt and blade engraving.

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Here is a image of one of mine. The blade is identical, with "Honour and my Country", gilded flourishes at the ricasso and a short blade with the fuller running out to the very end.

 

I've never seen a scabbard for this type.

 

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I have too much stuff!

 

Revolutionary War through Korea.

 

Lots of field gear, some uniforms and "one or two" medals and a bit of insignia. Plus lots of odds and ends, too many and varied to go into detail here. Just ask and I'll try to help. Who knows? Maybe we can work something out!

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Here's a brass "smooth" handle version I picked up awhile back. Has the Honour And My Country on one side. Has the scabbard but it's missing the last few inches and the drag.

 

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KurtA,

 

A great looking saber!

 

I have a Widman somewhere that I guess I'll have to find to include in this topic.

I have too much stuff!

 

Revolutionary War through Korea.

 

Lots of field gear, some uniforms and "one or two" medals and a bit of insignia. Plus lots of odds and ends, too many and varied to go into detail here. Just ask and I'll try to help. Who knows? Maybe we can work something out!

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