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YES! A WW1 US Army Victoria Cross Recipient's Group on eBay!


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BEFORE ANYONE GETS TOO EXCITED...it's not.

 

But it's a really fine case of stolen valor...probably from the 1930s. I asked to get a better photo of the engraving on the back of the VC as it appears to be his name. Quite the war hero, most definitely!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWI-US-medal-grouping-ID-purple-heart-dog-tag-battle-bars-PLUS-MORE-LQQK-/131723150210

 

(Sorry if anyone was trying to keep it "hidden" as their own special auction...it's not going to last long, I don't think...)

 

 

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Only a weak society needs government protection or intervention before it pursues its resolve to preserve the truth. Truth needs neither handcuffs nor a badge for its vindication. -Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy

Peace is not the absence of war, but the defense of hard-won freedom. -Anton LaGuardia


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More photos...

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Only a weak society needs government protection or intervention before it pursues its resolve to preserve the truth. Truth needs neither handcuffs nor a badge for its vindication. -Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy

Peace is not the absence of war, but the defense of hard-won freedom. -Anton LaGuardia


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From Wikipedia....

 

William Jones VC (1839 15 April 1913) was a British recipient of the Victoria Cross for his action at the Battle of Rorke's Drift in January 1879, the highest and most prestigious award for gallantry in the face of the enemy that can be awarded to British and Commonwealth forces.

 

Must be a different Wm. Jones if this one died in 1913....but what are the odds of there being two William Jones receiving a VC?

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Collector of WWII M-1helmets and WWII Airborne items

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On a VC, the name is engraved on the reverse of the lower bar and the date of action in center of cross.

 

Wharf

 

 

Yes. And in case anyone's wondering if I think this "might" be a good group, trust me, it's not. 100% not. It's 100% pure "stolen valor" of the time...who knows if his dog tag is even real! And no, none of the engraving is correct.

 

Here's the closeup of the engraving on the VC. For those who have seen real VCs, this is far from correct (the whole medal is far from correct). However, I wanted a photo just to see the engraving style as it's neatly done and something one would perhaps see on a privately engraved medal (a US one...I know VCs were never privately engraved...) of the time period.

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Only a weak society needs government protection or intervention before it pursues its resolve to preserve the truth. Truth needs neither handcuffs nor a badge for its vindication. -Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy

Peace is not the absence of war, but the defense of hard-won freedom. -Anton LaGuardia


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Great detective work Dave, i am a little curious as to when this would date from and way would you say 1930s? Engraving Style? Does the purple heart number even correspond to this individual?

Please Remember the Following Service Members who have passed on!

 

Manley S Webb- 1925-2006 US Navy WW2

James W Boutilier - 1921-1983 US Navy Seabees WW2

Russell W Haight - 1876-1953 Spanish American War, Cuban Pacification, Mexican Border War NYNG

Lt Colonel William H Warren 1921-2014 USAF

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It is not even a 'good' reproduction of a Victoria Cross. VC's are made from Russian cannons captured during the Crimean war. These days if you can find yourself a VC for sale for under $150,000 it is a bargain, the last few VC's that went up for auction in Australia sold for close to a Million Dollars per group. A official replica made by Hancock's who always made them costs 400 pounds:

 

http://www.hancocks-london.com/victoria-cross

Wanted - WW2 Medals, Uniforms or Groupings to the 82nd Airborne Div

 

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All,

 

For those of you who don't arleady know, this is humped up. The engraving on the heart is wrong, there was no W.E. Jones who received the VC in WW1. If it was Hutcheson, Metcalf, Mullin, Seeley, or Zengel it would have a 1 in a million shot. This is just a heads up for some of the newer folks to this field.

 

John

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWI-US-medal-grouping-ID-purple-heart-dog-tag-battle-bars-PLUS-MORE-LQQK-/131723150210?hash=item1eab4fc382:g:dycAAOSwll1WuLUS

 

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Dave, I agree without a doubt to your findings.

 

It looks like the guy put some effort in this group. He found the correct French awards: a fine Medaille Militaire, 2 correct Croix de Guerre with 1914 - 1918 on the reverse (the one issued to US service members), a rather poor copy of the VC (in our Internet era, but back in the 30ties perhaps a perfect example).

 

He also found a pre WW2 Purple heart. I wonder If it is numbered. It doesn't look like the few unmarked I saw before.

And offcourse he added the brooches.

 

If only the VC was a MM or a DCM, what would be the verdict for this group?

 

I wonder If this guy really served in France in WW1 at all. What do the experts think?

 

Regards

Herman

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According to the e bay seller the PH is not numbered. It looks like a BB&B strike. That’s a first one for me.

I only know a few of the second contract (40,001 to 59,500 range) to the American Emblem Co..

This company sold a few at the back door and got their PH contract terminated early for the 2nd BB&B contract.

 

Herman

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Herman,

 

Looks like a BBB to me too, what threw me was the lack of a S/N. And, it being sold out the back door makes sense. All the American VC recipients that I know of, that I listed above were in the CEF as far as I know. And the engraving appears to be of the period, the aging looks consistent with the age/condition. I agree with all of the above, a 1930's case of someone either humping up their record, or a poser. I was watching it, it's gone so, somebody either got burned, or, the E-Bay cops pulled it.

 

John

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Looks like an American Emblems contract medal from 1933. It's not a BBB contract medal. I had heard George Studley had some un-numbered ones he used to sell . Maybe this vet bought the medals from Studley in the 30s or 40s and had them engraved,

 

Kurt

!!!! WANTED !!!!

WWII Prisoner of War items : Medals, Mail, Diaries, Photos, Documents, Scrapbooks + More

WWII Naval Aviation Groupings : Medals, Documents, Scrapbooks, Photos, Flight Logs, Flight Jackets + More

 


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OK,totally bogus group.

 

However is there enough value in parts to justify the latest bid of $227 and change?

 

 

I think $227 is pushing it for parts value. The French Military Merit medal is about $65 (though maybe less since it appears his name is also engraved on the reverse) the CdeGs around $15 each, the Purple Heart with bad engraving maybe $75, the fake VC, maybe $20, the WW1 Victory around $40. I don't know on the Red Cross medal and the dogtag isn't worth much in my book. So maybe "top end" parts value is right around what the group stands at now.

 

At least in my opinion, of course! :)

Only a weak society needs government protection or intervention before it pursues its resolve to preserve the truth. Truth needs neither handcuffs nor a badge for its vindication. -Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy

Peace is not the absence of war, but the defense of hard-won freedom. -Anton LaGuardia


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Looks like an American Emblems contract medal from 1933. It's not a BBB contract medal. I had heard George Studley had some un-numbered ones he used to sell . Maybe this vet bought the medals from Studley in the 30s or 40s and had them engraved,

 

Kurt

 

Kurt-

 

The quality of this PH looks pretty sub-par, in my opinion (I look at how many every day???) :D Was that typical of the AE contract, or could these have been ones that Studley (or someone else) had made up?

 

Dave

Only a weak society needs government protection or intervention before it pursues its resolve to preserve the truth. Truth needs neither handcuffs nor a badge for its vindication. -Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy

Peace is not the absence of war, but the defense of hard-won freedom. -Anton LaGuardia


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Hi Dave

 

The finish, ribbon color, and brooch all indicate to me AE made this. Perhaps the quality control wasn't as good, but AE Purple Hearts have always looked like lesser quality as compared to BBB medals,

 

I think AE made this for Studley.

 

Kurt

!!!! WANTED !!!!

WWII Prisoner of War items : Medals, Mail, Diaries, Photos, Documents, Scrapbooks + More

WWII Naval Aviation Groupings : Medals, Documents, Scrapbooks, Photos, Flight Logs, Flight Jackets + More

 


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Hi Dave

 

The finish, ribbon color, and brooch all indicate to me AE made this. Perhaps the quality control wasn't as good, but AE Purple Hearts have always looked like lesser quality as compared to BBB medals,

 

I think AE made this for Studley.

 

Kurt

 

Makes sense! If anything, this has been a good education on a slightly different style of early PH!

Only a weak society needs government protection or intervention before it pursues its resolve to preserve the truth. Truth needs neither handcuffs nor a badge for its vindication. -Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy

Peace is not the absence of war, but the defense of hard-won freedom. -Anton LaGuardia


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There was another unnumbered PH on the forum in a group similar to this a while back. We need to find the thread!

 

Kurt

!!!! WANTED !!!!

WWII Prisoner of War items : Medals, Mail, Diaries, Photos, Documents, Scrapbooks + More

WWII Naval Aviation Groupings : Medals, Documents, Scrapbooks, Photos, Flight Logs, Flight Jackets + More

 


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It's 100% pure "stolen valor" of the time...who knows if his dog tag is even real! And no, none of the engraving is correct.

 

 

 

Dave,

 

Is this group truly 100% pure stolen valor? From reading the responses, it appears this group might be a put together group from a seller and not one done by the veteran himself. Therefore, it is not stolen valor.

 

Was this group done by the veteran or the seller?

 

...Kat

 

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I think the vet bought his medals from George Studley in the 30s or 40s. I don't think a collector put this together,

 

Studley actually had a license from the Govt to produce and sell medals and insignia. Veterans were his customer base for the most part.

 

Kurt

!!!! WANTED !!!!

WWII Prisoner of War items : Medals, Mail, Diaries, Photos, Documents, Scrapbooks + More

WWII Naval Aviation Groupings : Medals, Documents, Scrapbooks, Photos, Flight Logs, Flight Jackets + More

 


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

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I think the vet bought his medals from George Studley in the 30s or 40s. I don't think a collector put this together,

 

Kurt

 

 

Kurt,

Thank you for clarifying. I was confused about the discussion regarding the medals.

 

However, is there are way to prove this was 100% done by the veteran or is this just how it appears?

 

...Kat

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Hi Dave

 

The finish, ribbon color, and brooch all indicate to me AE made this. Perhaps the quality control wasn't as good, but AE Purple Hearts have always looked like lesser quality as compared to BBB medals,

 

I think AE made this for Studley.

 

Kurt

+1

 

I heard the same story. And saw at least two unnumbered AE hearts over the years. This is number 3. Again a Studley sale I presume.

 

Herman

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