USMC Summer Service Uniform(s) & Shirts

[ScottG]

So yesterday I received a batch of items from a friend whose Mother works at a local historical museum. They were cleaning and decided to de-access much of their military collection. It was all going to the trash so she called me and asked if I wanted it. Needless to say, I jumped! She delivered it all and it literally filled a Town and Country Van to include the passenger seat. In the grouping were several WWI uniforms, to include these labeled as WWI. I know they are USMC and the trousers appear to have a date or pattern date of 1910. So, I am looking for more details. What exactly do I have? When/Where were they used? What are they going for? Most importantly there are two names, The one stamped in the blouse, and a Sgt. James Warner of Ypsilanti MI. I think Warner is my guy, but if someone has a muster roll, I would love to know more. Thanks everyone and here are the jackets. Scott.

[ScottG]

Here are the shirts. Scott.

[ScottG]

Close up of the rank. Its the same on all 4 pieces. Scott

[ScottG]

The other name. Scott

[ScottG]

Front of trousers. Scott

[ScottG]

Rear of trousers. Scott

[ScottG]

Stamp in trousers. Scott

[world war I nerd]

Scott, you did well.

 

The uniforms are the USMC Pattern 1912 Summer Field Uniform for enlisted men made from khaki cotton drill. These were worn from approximately 1912 through to, I believe 1924.

 

That uniform was comprised of a khaki cotton service coat bearing two pleated breast pockets, pointed cuffs and removable USMC bronze finish buttons, and matching straight legged khaki cotton trousers.

 

In respect to the flannel shirts: the left hand shirt with a fully buttoned front and pointed pocket flaps is a USMC Pattern 1912 Flannel Shirt.

 

The right hand pullover style shirt with a three button placket collar opening is an Army 1916 Flannel Shirt. During WW I, Marines attached to the AEF were issued Army style shirts beginning in the spring of 1918, all the way through to mid 1919.

 

Unless that shirt is named or otherwise marked to a Marine there's no way to know with any certainty if it was indeed used by a Marine or if it is just a random WW I Army issued shirt that somehow made its way into the collection.

[ScottG]

Thanks for the info. In regards to the shirts they are identical with full buttoned fronts. Its probably just a combination of my bad photography and the way they are laid on the table. One question that comes to mind is if they are a 1912 pattern, then why do the pants have 1910. I did some searching prior to posting and saw 1912 items, but the 1910 stamp made me ask. Any idea as to value as well? Scott

[world war I nerd]

A fully buttoned front and pointed pocket flaps would indicate both shirts were USMC issued. My apologies regarding the summer uniform's designation ... the USMC Summer Field Uniform was adopted in 1898 not 1912. It was the forest green Winter Field Uniform that was adopted in 1912!

[ScottG]

No apologies needed here, you clearly know more than me! So, I guess I just need to find the muster rolls and check these guys out. Thanks again for all of the great info! Scott

[warguy]

I believe the summer khaki cotton uniform adopted pre 1900 was a slightly different design with a different cut on the collar. The ones you have I believe are the P1910 pattern. The smaller size stripes if I remember came in around 1912, with the seam to seam in use before then. This tunic style saw lots of use in the Banana war period. It was the Marine summer uniform and prevalent in Cuba, China, Haiti, Nicaragua, and in use all the way til 1927 when they went to the lapel lay down collar. Nice pieces. Do both shirts have the pointed collars? Kevin

[capa]

Well done Scott! I work in the museum field and I was shocked to read they were being thrown away. Frankly, I have never heard of such a thing happening and they must not be an accredited institution. Our code of ethics clearly states that we find new homes for deaccessioned objects.

I apologize for hijacking your thread-it's just occasions like this one, albeit rare, that help drive that wedge of misunderstanding between museums and collectors so I felt compelled to comment.

Cheers and I am happy someone who will preserve the uniforms got them.

[suwanneetrader]

Well done Scott! I work in the museum field and I was shocked to read they were being thrown away. Frankly, I have never heard of such a thing happening and they must not be an accredited institution. Our code of ethics clearly states that we find new homes for deaccessioned objects.

I apologize for hijacking your thread-it's just occasions like this one, albeit rare, that help drive that wedge of misunderstanding between museums and collectors so I felt compelled to comment.

Cheers and I am happy someone who will preserve the uniforms got them.

 

I agree that it is good you saved them, but in my 56 years of collecting as well as selling and trading I know of at least a dozen times when local historical societies and small County or City Museums decided to get rid of Militaria "DONATED" items that they couldn't or wouldn't find room to display. In most of the cases a Director or other Volunteer took them and kept or sold them. That is why I tell families it is nice to share and try to preserve your love-ones memory but get a contract that if no longer displayed items revert to the family. The only trouble is if 2 or 3 generations have passed that is usually difficult to do. Richard

[Bruce Linz]

Hello,

 

This maybe one your Marines:

 

Thomas James Maguire

Date of Birth: 04 August 1982

Date of Death: 13 April 1960

USMC service number: 109074

Enlisted: 26 February 1914

 

Semper Fi,

Bruce Linz

[ludwigh1980]

Thomas J. Maguire : long serving Marine. 1914-1939. Notable places served: Vera Cruz 1914 and China 1927. I would get documentation from the museum stating that they had authorization to de-acquire this.

I would think with the Tampico Affair connection makes that coat somewhat desirable.

[ScottG]

Thanks for all of the great info everyone. In regards to the museum in question, all of these items went through a de-accession process and no suitable recipient came forward. One of the requirements was to take everything offered. There is and was a lot of repro/badged up crap... I agreed to take it all and I have the paperwork. Items like this will not go in my collection, but to a museum project I am working on. I just didn't want to get into all of those details here. I really appreciate the info and the many pm'd offers, but they will not be sold. Scott

 

As a side note, is there anything on the rolls about James Warner? That name is the local connection. Scott

[Schnicklfritz]

Awesome find indeed. The USMC flannel shirts are almost impossible to find. It is sad, but true that many local museums have thrown away a lot of stuff over the years. I know a local museum that did it not too long ago. Did not hear about it til it was too late. Most of the folks that work at places like this really are not curators that know how to preserve this stuff.