Colonel Sanders Posted January 27, 2016 Share #1 Posted January 27, 2016 Hey guys, I just purchased this patch the other day and thought I'd post it here. It's in rough shape, but I thought it was interesting because it wasn't referenced in Millstein's, but according to what I've seen online it was used at some point. Do you guys know where this may have been manufactured? Here are some links to where I've seen pics of the patch: http://www.heinzhistorycenter.org/blog/collection-spotlight/an-american-in-china https://www.facebook.com/vmsb244/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Queen Posted January 27, 2016 Share #2 Posted January 27, 2016 Have never seen an embroidered example. Have only seen silkscreen. That is not a judgement simply an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted January 27, 2016 Share #3 Posted January 27, 2016 Good stuff. There are 2 known embroidered patches, an Australian made patch and the second what I think is a later american embroidered which is one the OP has shown. I have not got my hands on the 2nd one to study and confirm. In addition, there at least 3 different stencils utilized on hand made pennants and gear. Eric, do you an example to show? I will round up some photos and add here shortly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Signor Posted January 28, 2016 Share #4 Posted January 28, 2016 Here's two images I have of the emblem one is felt/wool and the other I think is embroidered on twill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Queen Posted January 28, 2016 Share #5 Posted January 28, 2016 Unfortunately I only have this one crappy Polaroid photo from the 80's. Dad got it directly from a local vet. It was white paint stencil/silk screen on USMC green wool and had a zig-zag cut edge. I believe Dad sold or traded it to Millstein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Sanders Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share #6 Posted January 29, 2016 That's probably the stencil design he cited in his book; definitely a cool example. I certainly hope that mine is the American one you mentioned JP (I've been burned a lot lately haha) and I'm looking forward to seeing those photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted January 29, 2016 Share #7 Posted January 29, 2016 First things first, this image is of a reproduction used on pillows, t-shirts and patches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted January 29, 2016 Share #8 Posted January 29, 2016 Johnny, Here is the Australian made version which is cited in Jeff Millsteins book. Wool and fine weave cotton backing with white embroidered lettering and Banshee. There is a grey-green backing glued to the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted January 29, 2016 Share #9 Posted January 29, 2016 The 2nd patch looks to be american embroidered on wool with a higher grade cheesecloth backing. These photos are from ebay and better show the wool and backing. Obviously, the Banshee and lettering contrast with the australian version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted January 29, 2016 Share #10 Posted January 29, 2016 This 2nd patch has cropped up in several groupings. The best one I have seen belongs to a grouping NavyDan shared with me. IMO, the 2nd patch is original, based on the evidence I have seen, but it would be helpful if collectors who have a patch with provenance add it to the thread. What needs to be answered is when is was authorized and issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted January 29, 2016 Share #11 Posted January 29, 2016 http://www.heinzhistorycenter.org/blog/collection-spotlight/an-american-in-china This photo came from the Heinz History Center and is referenced in an article from 2015. I had not seen it before, but he was a radioman with VMSB-244 that went on to Tsingtao, China at the end of the war and returned to the US in mid 1946. I added it for completeness sake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted January 29, 2016 Share #12 Posted January 29, 2016 It is of interest that Jeff Millstein had seen an example of a version that was stenciled on wool. While not able to confirm its originality at the time, he did make note and teased us USMC collectors with what might be. Like any area of collecting, there is the opportunity for new discoveries and the VMSB-244 fits the bill. With Eric's photo, I have now encountered 4 different sources that had this particular stencil version. Probably 6 or 7 years ago, I picked up a USMC grouping that had ample evidence to convince me of the stencils originality. At this time, it appears that there are 4 stencil versions...here is a photo of the grouping and the duffel bag he carried... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted January 29, 2016 Share #13 Posted January 29, 2016 The stencils found on the pennants are pretty cool and could have been further cut to patch size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted January 29, 2016 Share #14 Posted January 29, 2016 But, I think it is more likely they made up patches as well and represent a 4th version if you will. I took Eric's pic and put it here to compare with another one I found on the forum posted by RMoore and kept for reference. It came with a grouping I believe, but I never did follow up on it. Note the similarity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Sanders Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share #15 Posted January 29, 2016 Wow JP thanks for all of the pictures and help! I'm glad to see my version of the patch pop up in NavyDan's awesome grouping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted January 29, 2016 Share #16 Posted January 29, 2016 CS, you are very welcome! Ask a good question and take time to post, you deserve a good reply. I could be wrong, but I believe yours is american embroidered based on the construction and I need to study a few more if I can, but thats my story and I am sticking to it, LOL! I had seen the patch you bought floating around out there, but just watched. Hopefully, some day I can look at your patch in person. regards, pat ps-and as long as we are talking about the vmsb-244, we might as well make it a reference thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Dan Posted February 3, 2016 Share #17 Posted February 3, 2016 Hello gentlemen, Spoke with pat and figured I would add this one to the topic. It is attached to the largest flight jacket I have ever seen. He was with the Banshees and then the Death Angels then Cherry Point. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Dan Posted February 3, 2016 Share #18 Posted February 3, 2016 Other patches He was also in the Banshees the same time as my other grouping ! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted February 3, 2016 Share #19 Posted February 3, 2016 Boy, Dan, great patched jacket! I am thinking this is a 1945 patch and hopefully, I will have some supporting documentation soon. The Australian patches numbered 25-30 according to Charlie Fink and were made in several lots, each costing roughly $2.50 and only for the flight crew. It interesting to note that the original design for the 244 was made by Fink and fairly stylized, in both the Banshee and lettering. The subsequent patches are much simplified in there actual design. While the design was adopted locally in the PTO in 1943, apparently it was only approved by the HQMC in Novemeber of 1945, lol. regards, pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Sanders Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share #20 Posted February 6, 2016 Wow, that's an awesome jacket Dan! I'm hoping to pick up my first patched leather jacket pretty soon. I found this picture on Overlord Militaria of another variant with a different style of embroidery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Dan Posted February 7, 2016 Share #21 Posted February 7, 2016 Wow, that's an awesome jacket Dan! I'm hoping to pick up my first patched leather jacket pretty soon. I found this picture on Overlord Militaria of another variant with a different style of embroidery 247_Patch_372.jpg 256_Patch_373.jpg Thanks , That was my first patched jacket and I got it with in a few months of the other grouping . Funny how it worked out and my main collection is USN But I'm a big fan of the SBD. So ill make an exception plus it is an awesome patch ! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmoore456 Posted February 7, 2016 Share #22 Posted February 7, 2016 But, I think it is more likely they made up patches as well and represent a 4th version if you will. I took Eric's pic and put it here to compare with another one I found on the forum posted by RMoore and kept for reference. It came with a grouping I believe, but I never did follow up on it. Note the similarity... Yes, that did come with a group. I have his caps and uniform. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted February 7, 2016 Share #23 Posted February 7, 2016 Yes, that did come with a group. I have his caps and uniform. Ray Thanks for chiming in, Ray! Is your grouping identified? pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted February 7, 2016 Share #24 Posted February 7, 2016 As for the Overlord Militaria patch, in all likelihood, it is a reproduction. I have asked for some hi resolution photos to look at further, but I do not like what I see. pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Sanders Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share #25 Posted February 7, 2016 Here's a link to another image (not a very good one) of the same style of the Overlord patch. http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/lot-military-patches-including-joes-506675639 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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