Jump to content

Unusual USMC Canteen Cover? manufactured or field modified?


USMC-RECON0321

Recommended Posts

USMC-RECON0321

The only USMC canteen cover I know of that is marked "U.S.M.C." on the front like this one is the 1950's OD7 Canteen cover. This one is currently being sold on ebay with an M-1910 canteen inside. It doesn't have the pre WWI USMC Canteen cover veriticle stitiching on the back, nor the hanger sewn high on the back. You can also see it has insulation inside the cover (If you go to the auction pictures), but none of the WWII USMC Covers had insulation inside. So any ideas what this is? Or is it just an Army issue canteen cover that someone has stamped "U.S.M.C. on the front?

 

I haven't found anything close in any USMC reference books of mine.

 

 

Auction link:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301851437584?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

Thanks

Troy

 

post-33000-0-91674900-1453763293.jpg post-33000-0-34111700-1453763302.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321

Well crap, I decided to take a chance on it and won it. After posting this I found another one that was posted on here in 2014 with the same markings and location of the back hanger, except it was modified with a Cav hanger (you can see the X stitching from where the back hanger was removed) and it also had the eagle snaps? Now this one does not have eagle snaps, so maybe it was upgraded to the pull snaps seen on this one. Anyway, its enough of a mystery to hold on to until I can figure it out.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/227430-questions-about-recently-acquired-canteen-covers-usmc-and/

 

 

Still interested if anyone can educate me on this.

Thanks

Troy

Link to post
Share on other sites

If your gut feelings are telling you it's not right? I would say stay away from it.

I did a little research and found real WWI USMC canteen covers are marked inside the flap early also they came lined and unlined.

 

All of these USMC marking on the front of canteen covers of pre Korean War canteen covers were added by surplus stores in the 1950's to help them become easy sellers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321

If your gut feelings are telling you it's not right? I would say stay away from it.

I did a little research and found real WWI USMC canteen covers are marked inside the flap early also they came lined and unlined.

 

All of these USMC marking on the front of canteen covers of pre Korean War canteen covers were added by surplus stores in the 1950's to help them become easy sellers.

 

No actually I like the look of it, so I guess the gut feeling is its good, I just couldn't find any reference showing these, except the other one I posted a link to above. They are the same construction and markings just one has been modified by removing the rear hanger (you can see the outline of it) and adding the mounted strap. The other one also had the USMC Eagle snaps on it. Then this one just happens to have a M1910 canteen inside and WWI cup. So I think it's a good gamble and if not, at only $130 I can't loose to bad having the M1910 canteen and cup with engravings inside it.

 

My feeling is there is more to these two than is known now and worth hanging on to until I can figure it out one way or another. I have every USMC Canteen cover example right now (except the USMC eagle snap cover, I have a few Army Eagle snaps but not the Marine version), so this will be a nice addition for display and hopefully the research will pan out eventually. Or not?? :blink:

 

Thanks

Troy

Link to post
Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321

Here is pictures from the other one found on the forum. Credit to USMF Member CW4AFB.

 

You can see the same style USMC Stamp used and location, both are insulated like the pre-WWI USMC covers except his has the eagle snaps and the mine has the lift a dots (started in 1917 I think that page said). You can also see both have the taller construction of the cover riding high on the canteen.

 

post-33000-0-70640400-1453767244.jpg post-33000-0-68562200-1453767282.jpg post-33000-0-44608800-1453767275.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Troy, that link is only one page. That is Frankie's old website (member NewRomantic), but no one seems to have heard from him in a long time, and he seems to have dropped out of the hobby.

 

 

 

I think the cover is interesting. If nothing else it appears that the stitching thread is not covered with the ink from the stencil. How about some close-ups?

Link to post
Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321

Here is the back side of the one I just won showing the X stitched hanger and the back of forum members CW4AFB cover where the hanger was removed and modified to the strap.

 

post-33000-0-22303600-1453767571.jpg post-33000-0-21303100-1453767579.jpg

 

 

post-33000-0-07776200-1453767802.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321

Troy, that link is only one page. That is Frankie's old website (member NewRomantic), but no one seems to have heard from him in a long time, and he seems to have dropped out of the hobby.

 

 

 

I think the cover is interesting. If nothing else it appears that the stitching thread is not covered with the ink from the stencil. How about some close-ups?

 

RC

 

Actually I posted this first from the eBay auction that ended about 30 minutes after I started this thread today. (I wish I would've seen it sooner) Having a decent USMC Canteen collection and never seeing one of these, I was hoping someone might know about it. But with so little time left in the auction I decided to take a chance. So to answer your question for better pictures, I don't have it in hand yet, but I will get them on here once it arrives.

 

Thanks

Troy

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is some added ( USMC) stamps that looks like the same fonts as your cover but smaller done to WWI 45 pouches as said this was done to field gear to inhance sales of it in the 1950's by surplus stores.

post-7997-0-72247600-1453768089.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321

Here is some added ( USMC) stamps that looks like the same fonts as your cover but smaller done to WWI 45 pouches as said this was done to field gear to inhance sales of it in the 1950's by surplus stores.

 

Yes anything is possible and maybe so, but would someone need to add a fake USMC stamp to a USMC Eagle Snap canteen cover to enhance the value? Wouldn't be a good idea I don't think.

 

This wasn't a huge investment and will be fun to research and as we all know about this hobby, never say never. When you think you've seen them all, something else is found that changes the "Known".

 

Thanks again

Troy

Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a lot of original field gear wrecked buy some jack wades running surplus stores and adding fake USMC stamps to this vintage field gear as said was done to get more dollars out of it.

 

My only question is if it was done in WWI then why not done to WWII marine canteen covers? other then found with unit markings.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Troy,

 

My bad; I did not click the link to see when the auction had ended.

 

I think it is an interesting cover and look forward to more images when you receive it. Everyone knows there is good reason to be skeptical of 'USMC' marked equipment, but it is too easy to judge from afar in all cases.

 

RC

Link to post
Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321

Hi Troy,

 

My bad; I did not click the link to see when the auction had ended.

 

I think it is an interesting cover and look forward to more images when you receive it. Everyone knows there is good reason to be skeptical of 'USMC' marked equipment, but it is too easy to judge from afar in all cases.

 

RC

 

No problem. Well it was one of those situations needing a fast decision and I like the look of the aging and grime to the stamp and seeing another posted on here in 2014, I figured what the heck, I'll take a chance. It does come with a nice early Pre WWI canteen and cup anyway, so not a total loss if it can't be figured out.

 

 

post-33000-0-64767700-1453769678.jpg post-33000-0-36075700-1453769688.jpg post-33000-0-37630800-1453769697.jpg

 

post-33000-0-57399000-1453769712.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen the early Philadelphia Depot EGA snap canteen covers with the "USMC" markings such as the one you won. My gut feeling is that this is a Phila Depot c1914 manufactured cover with the EGA snaps later replaced with the LTD's. The rear hook looks correct and I wouldn't be surprised if it has the metal tube running through the web hanger.

Tim

Link to post
Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321

I have seen the early Philadelphia Depot EGA snap canteen covers with the "USMC" markings such as the one you won. My gut feeling is that this is a Phila Depot c1914 manufactured cover with the EGA snaps later replaced with the LTD's. The rear hook looks correct and I wouldn't be surprised if it has the metal tube running through the web hanger.

Tim

 

Tim,

 

That would be great to uncover solid evidence of these covers if that is true. I won't be in a hurry to get rid of it as I hope someone will eventually discovers contracts or documented information about these covers if they are legit. Maybe a very short lived production?

 

Troy

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only USMC canteen cover I know of that is marked "U.S.M.C." on the front like this one is the 1950's OD7 Canteen cover. This one is currently being sold on ebay with an M-1910 canteen inside. It doesn't have the pre WWI USMC Canteen cover veriticle stitiching on the back, nor the hanger sewn high on the back. You can also see it has insulation inside the cover (If you go to the auction pictures), but none of the WWII USMC Covers had insulation inside. So any ideas what this is? Or is it just an Army issue canteen cover that someone has stamped "U.S.M.C. on the front?

 

I haven't found anything close in any USMC reference books of mine.

 

 

Auction link:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301851437584?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

Thanks

Troy

 

attachicon.gifs-l1600 (2)a.jpg attachicon.gifs-l1600 (7)a.jpg

 

 

Indeed this is an original USMC cover. I could not find the thread on the one I had many years back that I sold, but I found some pics.

It has the early chap and hook in tube and no markings under the flaps. The one you pictured has been modified with LTD's but it looks like the rest is original including the chap and hook set up.

post-2260-0-54403900-1453774266.jpgpost-2260-0-34077300-1453774340.jpg

My USMC marking is very faded. Note that this could be the first pattern USMC cover in this P10 pattern.

Pep

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Troy,

Yes I think these were only made for one or two years. Probably the first production run at the Philadelphia Depot. I've seen some EGA covers with a 1914 date but most are undated. At least Rock Island Arsenal was nice enough to date their army covers for us collectors. :) The fact that the "USMC" appears to be under the stitching tells me it was applied to the canvas before manufacture. My army RIA covers have the change from the stenciled "US" to the stamped ( under the stitching) in the 1914 and later covers. I would assume the Marines did the same, then for some reason dropped the "USMC" on the front.

 

This is a recruiting poster for WW1 showing the Marines at Vera Cruz. Note the canteen covers have the USMC on them. I know it's just a painting but it is period and I would assume the artist would have used models wearing "standard" issue gear.

Tim

 

post-192-0-30250200-1453774712.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321

Wow, Great information guys and yes I would agree that poster is pretty good evidence. Well I'm "very" glad I took a chance on this, I think this is going to turn out to be a pretty hard USMC canteen cover variation to find. I'll get a much better look at the lift a dot snaps when it arrives and see if I can see signs of the upgrade from the Eagle snaps.

 

Thanks again for all the help and research guys.

 

Troy

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not rely on a poster to support reality. Look at the WW1 posters that showed every Marine with an EGA on their helmet. The depot made m1910s starting in 1912 and examples from 1914 exist with depot markings and dated 1914. I have not seen any photos of Marines with usmc mrked on m1910 cnten covers as of yet. You never know what will surface though.post-7194-0-73198700-1453790244.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321

I would not rely on a poster to support reality. Look at the WW1 posters that showed every Marine with an EGA on their helmet. The depot made m1910s starting in 1912 and examples from 1914 exist with depot markings and dated 1914. I have not seen any photos of Marines with usmc mrked on m1910 cnten covers as of yet. You never know what will surface though.attachicon.gifresized_20160125_222352.jpg

 

Just saying the poster is good "evidence" (not proof) these canteen covers did exist and as you stated the posters also showed every helmet had an EGA on it and we know they "all didn't", But... "some did", just like shown in the posters.

 

Here is another thing to think about; 4 of these versions have been posted in this thread so far, all the same construction, same stamps, and with early canteens inside, if these were just Army canteen covers that someone stamped "USMC" on the fronts in the 1950's surplus stores to increase values, I find it hard to believe none of the 4 show any signs of the army's "U.S." stamp being there or signs of it being removed?

 

I can see arguing one example, but with 4 showing up in different collections around the world, I think we can at least assume with a little more confidence that these most likely did exist and the collector world (Books) hasn't figured them out yet with documented proof.

 

Troy

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just saying the poster is good "evidence" (not proof) these canteen covers did exist and as you stated the posters also showed every helmet had an EGA on it and we know they "all didn't", But... "some did", just like shown in the posters.

 

Here is another thing to think about; 4 of these versions have been posted in this thread so far, all the same construction, same stamps, and with early canteens inside, if these were just Army canteen covers that someone stamped "USMC" on the fronts in the 1950's surplus stores to increase values, I find it hard to believe none of the 4 show any signs of the army's "U.S." stamp being there or signs of it being removed?

 

I can see arguing one example, but with 4 showing up in different collections around the world, I think we can at least assume with a little more confidence that these most likely did exist and the collector world (Books) hasn't figured them out yet with documented proof.

 

Troy

 

Well said Troy.

As for the USMC marking, it was discussed in that older thread I mentioned and just found: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/14208-canteen-old-usmc-canteen-cover/?hl=usmc

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.