USCapturephotos Posted January 9, 2016 Share #1 Posted January 9, 2016 I love the letter with this little group and especially love the French patch that he traded for and his mention of beating the 101st there. I had a good veteran friend with the 7th Regiment who always said "yeah that division with the eagle on their shoulder always thinks they got there first but we did. We were then ordered to move on and they took over and got all of the good stuff". This veteran letter pretty much says the same thing. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share #2 Posted January 9, 2016 I actually got this from a good friend of mine who spoke to the veteran who brought these things back. I wish that I could have met him! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor996 Posted January 9, 2016 Share #3 Posted January 9, 2016 very cool! thanks for sharing this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share #4 Posted January 9, 2016 Hey thanks Thor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugafx4 Posted January 9, 2016 Share #5 Posted January 9, 2016 USCapturephotos, I am a collector of history and like your name, really enjoy the idea of captured weapons. Part of collecting capture weapons, is collecting the documents that go with them. I study capture papers and documents from World War 2. There are a lot of fake documents out there, and some of them are very difficult to tell. Sometimes we get blinded by the content, and fail to look at the document itself. Was this letter sold to you as original? It appears to me that someone typed a letter to go with this group, and stuffed it in an authentic WW2 envelope. It appears to be printed on an 8x11 sheet of printer paper that has been aged. The alignment is indicative of a computer. The person who typed this, typed it in the Font arial. It actually happens to be the same font the forum uses by default. Please compare the fonts in the words I copied below, to your letter above. Very much love to you all 101st S.S Berghof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share #6 Posted January 9, 2016 Interesting post. I do collect GI captured souvenirs including capture documents like yourself. My specialty is actually photographs. That said, my friend got this from the veteran himself who was in his early 90's. Yes, I guess the veteran could have retyped the letter and put it back in an original envelope to place with the artifacts. It's not out of the realm of possibility as we all know stories of veterans who purchased things after the war at a gun show or whatever and then "married" them with their souvenirs. Why would he have done this though? It surely wasn't an expensive group by any means. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1SG_1st_Cav Posted January 9, 2016 Share #7 Posted January 9, 2016 Very interesting bringbacks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share #8 Posted January 9, 2016 Thanks 1st Cav. Hey UGAFX4. Here are scans of the paper. It has obviously been affected by acids from other documents, does not fluoresce and even passes the "smell" test. It makes no sense to me why a 90+ year old man would have gone to all that trouble to "fake" a letter of his own writing. I think my buddy mentioned that the vet had said the paper even came from a supply of German paper his unit had access to. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share #9 Posted January 9, 2016 There is even an old piece of tape keeping a split from getting worse. Fake too? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share #10 Posted January 9, 2016 And the dimensions are approx. 6" x8 1/2" and it was obviously paper from a notebook, thus the punched holes in the sides. Faked too? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle's Nest Posted January 9, 2016 Share #11 Posted January 9, 2016 I used to own this group, but sold it to Paul a while back. I also wondered about the typeface and asked the veteran about this myself. He was in a nursing home at the time (may still be actually) and I called him up. He said he typed the letter on a captured German typewriter and just sent it on home. I had no reason to doubt him whatsoever. He was a nice old guy and deaf as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT247 Posted January 9, 2016 Share #12 Posted January 9, 2016 How cool would it have been to be the first ones up there. Great group! GI bring backs are the only non US stuff I have or collect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share #13 Posted January 9, 2016 Hey thanks Kyle. You and I have similar tastes. I only really chase after souvenirs with strong GI provenance. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT247 Posted January 9, 2016 Share #14 Posted January 9, 2016 I have a Japanese flag and bayonet brought back from the Pacific but your group has way better provenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Sgt CES Posted January 9, 2016 Share #15 Posted January 9, 2016 Nice insignia---Blue Skies Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share #16 Posted January 9, 2016 Thanks Blue Skies! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogface72 Posted January 10, 2016 Share #17 Posted January 10, 2016 That is crazy. I mean it just looks too perfect... like it was computer generated. The Germans were known for precision, however based on the photographs I would not consider it period 1945. I manually typed job applications back in 2001 and they did not look this good. Not calling it a fake, just doesn't add up in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88thcollector Posted January 10, 2016 Share #18 Posted January 10, 2016 I have no real opinion on the font issue. if typed on German paper, maybe it was typed on a German typewriter? You can google "WW2 German fonts" and then hit images to see some examples of WW2 fonts. DIN 1451 is sans serif like Arial. I haven't typed in decades but shouldn't the pressure the keys leave some raised areas on the back of the paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share #19 Posted January 10, 2016 Hey 88thcollector. That is a great point. I pulled it out and looked at it closer. I can't pick out any obvious pressure marks from the keys but I must also say that when handling the paper, it is of a thicker stock. I can understand how you can't trust everything someone says...even a veteran, but logically why would a veteran lie about being a typist in the headquarters company of a field artillery unit? It would make more sense if someone said they got the ss dagger or whatever after they "killed the German with their bare hands" or something like that. That would make me suspicious...but lying about typing letters in a headquarters company about a few insignia that aren't very valuable? Thanks all for the input! By the way, I talked to my friend Chris about it who actually spoke to the veteran about this grouping and he (the veteran) had many other letters that he had both written and typed that were sent to the family back home as well as other souvenirs. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dril Posted January 10, 2016 Share #20 Posted January 10, 2016 Maybe the letter was re typed on a computer. It looks too neat to be from a type writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted January 10, 2016 Share #21 Posted January 10, 2016 It's not unusual for a faker to use old unused paper stock and run it through a copier or type on it. Seen it happen many times. It's not as hard as you think to find old unused paper. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share #22 Posted January 10, 2016 True Kurt, but the veteran himself claimed he did this. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share #23 Posted January 10, 2016 And to your point as a photo collector, fakers have been using period 1940's paper to fake valuable WW2 photos as well. I agree with you. It's just that the veteran himself makes the claim. That doesn't make sense to me. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugafx4 Posted January 10, 2016 Share #24 Posted January 10, 2016 After some research, the Arial font was released in 1982. I wish I could blow up the document to compare fonts, but the file size restrictions lower the quality. The letters "S" and "g" are the most obvious. Compare this typeface to contemporary type writer typeface. The type writer "g" all appear to face the opposite direction appearing like "g". The ink is too evenly spread out to be a typewriter. The other thing that jumps out at me is the superscript 1st and 2nd. I know this is possible to do in a typewriter, but it would not be that small or neat. Perhaps someone with typewriter experience could help us out with that. I will concede the paper could be old. I do not have it in front of me and trust your opinion of it. However, that would be easy to place in a printer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCapturephotos Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share #25 Posted January 10, 2016 Hey uga. I'm no expert on paper or fonts so I will concede the point. I guess the veteran could have retyped his original letters himself? The Veteran himself is who these came from though and I doubt the veteran was some "master faker" attempting to deceive the collecting world with such small insignificant pieces. Again, there were a bunch of his documents, letters and other items that were purchased from him and spread to the four corners. Have you looked at the German fonts that 88thcollector suggested? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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