Engineering Corps Collar Disc

[Chief D]

I have looked at variations of this disc. I am trying to identify year range. The back has the beveled edge. The front middle of the castle is flat. Just from wear?

[KurtA]

Assuming the clutches are original to it, if flat-faced clutches - WW2. If the clutches have the small bumps, post WW2. Also, if there is any type of hallmark on the reverse rectangular strip, post WW2. "Most" stamped disks are WW2. But they did continue with them for a few years.

[Chief D]

Thanks Kurt. Assuming the clutches are original it would make it post WW2. They do have the raised bumps. It is also stamped on each clutch "Pat No's 2308412 2308424". As these patents came about in 1942. As far as any markings on the reverse of the bar, this bar does not come apart. The bar is securely in place by the folded edges of the disc. Were they commonly made like this?

[KurtA]

Thanks Kurt. Assuming the clutches are original it would make it post WW2. They do have the raised bumps. It is also stamped on each clutch "Pat No's 2308412 2308424". As these patents came about in 1942. As far as any markings on the reverse of the bar, this bar does not come apart. The bar is securely in place by the folded edges of the disc. Were they commonly made like this?

 

Not too many stamped disks can be found with a hallmark and if there is one, it is easily seen on the reverse bar. So, don't pry it apart! I have a few stamped Finance branch disks that are hallmarked. I'd say the manufacturing style of your disk was quite common in the 1940's. Started during the war to conserve brass. The easiest way to ID a WW2 example is if the reverse has either a zinc disk for a back, or a zinc bar that holds the clutches. But WW2 disks could be like yours with a brass bar. Tank Destroyer disks can be found with the brass bar and all original stamped FSSF disks I have seen have a brass bar. (Both of those branch disks only being WW2 era for sure).

 

Your clutches could have been replaced, so the disk may be WW2. If you're looking to restore a WW2 jacket, it would be most authentic if you found some flat face clutches.

[Chief D]

Thanks for the info Kurt. Much appreciated. I do have a question though. Maybe I am missing something. I know there has been discussion on the securing devices as I have read them. My questions is if the Patent was 1942/43 on the clutch backs, Is it possible that these backs with the Patent were on original WWII devices?

[patches]

To add to Kurt, Post War ones are slightly convexed too. From your photo, it looks Flat, in order to really tell though, one has to have handled these types a lot, and have them in hand. The wear? that from the wearer or wearers polishing it, after a time it wears away some details.

[Chief D]

I think I answered my question. Seeing Dave's previous post on Patents of the backs was interesting to say the least. These clutches do have the raised dimples which is indicated in patent number 2551196 in 1948. The interesting thing is that on the back of these clutches there are only 2 patents stamped on the back which are 2308412 and 2308424. Maybe a rhetorical question but why would they not include 2551196 also or in place of one of the others? You would think (or at least I do) if you are identifying an item as "patented" you would have the most up to date information on an item. If anyone can enlighten me, it would be appreciative. I tend to overthink things sometimes.

[patches]

I think it was just a case of the one's with the three number patent group was a refined version, refined in 1951, just what was refined?

 

Any hoo Have you seen this site?

 

http://hglanham.tripod.com/metalinsignia2/datingclutches.html

[Chief D]

wow thanks for that site. It will be very helpful to me in the future along with this forum.