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Fake Theater made patches


heady506th
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Sorry if I am being too forward, but it doesn't help putting patches up on E-Bay starting at an already inflated $50, especially when one can get them for $7-$12 in Iraq or where I was at Al Udeid. Drawing big $$$ is a sure-fire way of attracting money grubbing patch bandits. The patches should be started slightly above the bought price to keep it reasonable, and let the market do the rest. Sure, this wouldn't eliminate all repros, but it would discourage it a bit if you keep the profitability from copies down. Just my opinion.

 

That said, I agree that it will be virtually impossible to detect "fakes" as theator-made patches are made in just about every SW Asian country from Turkey to Aman......

 

-Ski

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SKI not being forward just come over here and buy them yourself. I am not giving them away and I doubt you will sell any you own for the price you just mentioned. I am going out of my way in a war zone to offer these to people with a gurantee of authenticity. If you don't agree with it I am sorry then don't purchase my patches.

IMG_0001.jpg

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I remember that... I think there was the hope that something seriously Army could be launched vise-style to the south at the launch of OIF... and, maybe (I'm old a feeble, please forgive) our guys from Germany were going to be headed there?

 

Yea, that was the goal, 2 divisions, one US and one Brit from the north into Iraq. They had some of us running around along the Iraqi border in places the Turkish military wouldnt go because it was KDP controlled. I had to BS myself out of a couple of KDP check points without getting whacked. As it was they ended up dropping the 173rd onto Bashur airfield as a "combat drop". That was funny since SOF was already using the airfield, we had to clear SOF aircraft off so they could drop clearly. The "northern campaign" was only exceeded in lunacy by the "Free Iraqi Forces" debacle.

 

As for theater made patches, collectors will set the market as always. I've got several, including ones I had made as one of a kind patches just for me. Having seen these made all over SWA since Desert Storm, with all the various makers and styles, I cant see paying more than $2.50 for any of them. Anyone that invests serious money in these is going to take a beating down the road.

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Yea, that was the goal, 2 divisions, one US and one Brit from the north into Iraq. They had some of us running around along the Iraqi border in places the Turkish military wouldnt go because it was KDP controlled. I had to BS myself out of a couple of KDP check points without getting whacked. As it was they ended up dropping the 173rd onto Bashur airfield as a "combat drop". That was funny since SOF was already using the airfield, we had to clear SOF aircraft off so they could drop clearly. The "northern campaign" was only exceeded in lunacy by the "Free Iraqi Forces" debacle.

 

As for theater made patches, collectors will set the market as always. I've got several, including ones I had made as one of a kind patches just for me. Having seen these made all over SWA since Desert Storm, with all the various makers and styles, I cant see paying more than $2.50 for any of them. Anyone that invests serious money in these is going to take a beating down the road.

 

 

Humm if the record holds true with theater made "original with provenance" patches from previous conflicts I doubt it. The only ones that will take a beating is the ones that waited for them to fall into their lap for 2.50 absolutely absurd. Wish I could find the place where they would sell them for the low prices I hear you all claim. Funny thing is though since 2003 over here in Iraq I haven't seen them for those amounts.....where did you see them for sale at..????? If there so cheap how come you all aren't selling them for that???? Lets see some pics of your collection you bought for 2.50 or less a piece and how bout some pics of you in uniform???? Got to have provenance and proof my friend all else is just talk and rumors.

David

Here's some real ones

P7270027.jpg

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Got to have provenance and proof my friend all else if just talk.

David

 

:lol:

 

And what's your provenance? A set of orders that you were over there, a pic or two, and ten cases of patches marked "Made in China" on the box? It's one thing if a guy is selling a patch or two he says he picked up at a place he can prove he was at, but you're apparently looking at this as a business venture...

 

There is really no way to prove whether a patch was made in Iraq or Thailand if we refuse to simply take your word for it. These other guys were/are there, just like you, and they have experiences to relate as well.

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:lol:

 

And what's your provenance? A set of orders that you were over there, a pic or two, and ten cases of patches marked "Made in China" on the box? It's one thing if a guy is selling a patch or two he says he picked up at a place he can prove he was at, but you're apparently looking at this as a business venture...

 

There is really no way to prove whether a patch was made in Iraq or Thailand if we refuse to simply take your word for it. These other guys were/are there, just like you, and they have experiences to relate as well.

Varangian

It obvious you have a problem with me though I really would appreciate for you to quit stalking me and jabbing at me at every opportunity. As I recall the last incident was in reference to the Regimental colors and I would appreciate it if you would leave me alone in the future find someone else to get kicked off with.

Thanks

David

By the way I am in Iraq not at the house selling patches made in China.

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Varangian

It obvious you have a problem with me though I really would appreciate for you to quit stalking me and jabbing at me at every opportunity. As I recall the last incident was in reference to the Regimental colors and I would appreciate it if you would leave me alone in the future find someone else to get kicked off with.

Thanks

David

By the way I am in Iraq not at the house selling patches made in China.

 

You're taking this the wrong way. You're not the only one in Iraq, there are other members here who are/have been there as well. Your dismissing their experiences because yours are different is simply not fair. There's enough disorder and regional difference for what all of you say to be true.

 

But to present yourself as the arbiter of real and fake is a little much, no? At least until you've written the reference book? There's enough width in the field for everyone's views and opinions.

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That was funny since SOF was already using the airfield, we had to clear SOF aircraft off so they could drop clearly. The "northern campaign" was only exceeded in lunacy by the "Free Iraqi Forces" debacle.

Well... they got their combat jump badge anyway, eh? :rolleyes:

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Holy sh*t....

 

What is the issue here?? I've bought several patches from David that have been made - yes - over in the sandbox. Maybe paid a little too much but that's my choice. If a few extra dollars can support him, then so be it. A very small price for me to pay for the endless freedoms I enjoy.

 

Maybe some of you should be more concerned about sending a few care packages over there instead of donning your collecting diapers and bitching about the price of a patch, where did it come from, is it theatre made, ect., ect.

 

I know David and have several close friends that know him as well. He is of the highest caliber and doesn't need to be berated by individuals like Varangian who obviously has an ax to grind. Who in the hell are any of you to tell David what price he should start his auctions off at?? Are you frickin kidding me?

 

What a joke.

 

Rich

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teufelhunde.ret

Gent's... let's settle down here, this is not the way to go about this conversation - give some consideration and respect to the views of others please. s/f Darrell

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He is of the highest caliber and doesn't need to be berated by individuals like Varangian who obviously has an ax to grind.

 

I'm not berating anyone. FTR, I'm an active-duty Master Army Aviator with just under 23 years of service, hundreds of combat hours, and hundreds more of imminent-danger hours acquired in places very few others wanted to go to. No civvie-on-military violence here.

 

I just found it "absurd" for him to dismiss as "absurd" the experiences of others and say "Got to have provenance and proof my friend all else if just talk" when his own "provenance and proof" is, well....talk.

 

I just think more respect should be shown for opinions that, though different, are certainly no less valid.

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how bout some pics of you in uniform????

 

I'm retired, but thanks for asking, some day you'll join the ranks of us retirees fighting over the last box of fruit loops at the commissary. During and after Desert Storm you could get patches for $2-5 depending on what they were and how fast you wanted them. I'm not much of a patch collector, but the last theater patch I got before I retired was in Qatar in 2005, a CFSOC patch about 6" square, and it cost me $10 as I recall, I got it as a lark because I liked their V44 type knife logo. Like I said, collectors can pay whatever they want, and if you can get $50 for a patch then go for it, anything to make a buck. We can check back on this thread in a couple of years, but I'll bet you a beer that $50 patch will be worth about $5-10 in a couple of years since any Paki with a sewing machine can make them to any spec you want. Patches are too easy to make, fakes are already ruining the WWII patch market, and those are harder to fake than something as standard-less as a SWA theater made patch.

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The Theater made patches from OIF has become a fancy of mine, since the war started. I have tracked the different units that wore specific patches and Heady has supplied with a number of variations for the price he paid which was well over the 2-5 dollar range. This is before he started his endevor on ebay selling them. It nice to see someone with the foresight to document the patches and sell them accordingly when the actual action/conflict is taking place. I bet if you look at old ASMIC books from Vietnam, there were soldiers making patches and selling them from in country. I will say if anyone can get me 101st patches that were made in Iraq or originate in the region I will buy them as the day is long. I think many should be thankful that he has done this. I think putting the extra coin into someone's pocket so he can fund other projects is a great thing. I have seen others sell them on ebay, copying Heady's auction and obviously selling them. If you want to have sour grapes its easy don't buy them! I will buy everyone he has left when he comes home, its like finding a lotto ticket that you know is going to win a week ahead of time.. Thanks again Heady for the cornerstone of my collection..Paul

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Yea, that was the goal, 2 divisions, one US and one Brit from the north into Iraq. They had some of us running around along the Iraqi border in places the Turkish military wouldnt go because it was KDP controlled. I had to BS myself out of a couple of KDP check points without getting whacked. As it was they ended up dropping the 173rd onto Bashur airfield as a "combat drop". That was funny since SOF was already using the airfield, we had to clear SOF aircraft off so they could drop clearly. The "northern campaign" was only exceeded in lunacy by the "Free Iraqi Forces" debacle.

 

As for theater made patches, collectors will set the market as always. I've got several, including ones I had made as one of a kind patches just for me. Having seen these made all over SWA since Desert Storm, with all the various makers and styles, I cant see paying more than $2.50 for any of them. Anyone that invests serious money in these is going to take a beating down the road.

 

Jeb.

I would like to appoligize if somehow I came off crass, I just get tired of certain individuals contacting me giving me crap cause I won't sell them patches for 2-3 dollars. I thought it once again funny and thought I was putting a little humor out there. Those of you that have deployed over here understand what a pain in the *** it is to get these things and then send them home especially the different types that each FOB offers. Ususally I have to send my scroungers out since during this tour I am in a BDE TOC and don't get to travel much unlike last tour. (Hence why you see me online so much). The guys who get these for me don't do it for free... you know the what is in it for me routine. I could list every reason why I ask what I do on my patchs yes some are 50 others start out at 25 and 30 and sometimes reach 50. If you can get them cheaper than why are a lot of you out there intent on gripping about my prices I don't understand.

 

Back on topic mainly I started this thread not to talk about my patches but the fake ones out there that no one wants to say are fake. I do unlike some others draw a fine line between made and used in our AOR (Area of Operations) and some knock of Taiwan/ China or Paki stuff being passed off as theater made. I was hoping to educate some out there. No I am not claiming to be a know it all but I will tell you this I am very confident after my time here what was used by us in the 101st and what was not to include theater made patches available at the concession shops where my unit the 101st is located now and where they have been. I currently know of three others out there with the same knowledge on these 101st patches and we hope to as you said make a book or guide in the future. As far as the other patches go yes I recognize the characteristics but I have not cataloged them as I have the 101st ones.

David

PS Thanks Rich and Paul

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Back on topic mainly I started this thread not to talk about my patches but the fake ones out there that no one wants to say are fake.

 

I hear you on the time and effort, I say get all you can for them. It's good that OEF/OIF stuff seems to be collectable now, usually it takes 10-30 years after the war is over before things start picking up value. Since your over there take as many pics as you can, and think about making a book, Schiffer Military will print anything. If someone like you doesnt document these at the time its going to be really hard for collectors in the future. My main collecting thing is WWII edged weapons, and its hard to believe how much has been forgotten and lost to the ages because nobody wrote it down in the day.

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Thanks Jeb

I had a few requests for the link of the patch in question that got this a little hot in here over prices apparantely. Here is one that belonged to a soldier in the 3-187. He was going home on leave and I recognized the patch was a theater made unique one. I only had one like it unfourtunately I had to trade another local theater made for it. If you were wanting a real salty used one with provenace here you go I can even tell you who it belonged to. This patch came from one of the smaller camps in 3-187's AOR.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=170262240738

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Sparkyasundevil
:lol:

 

And what's your provenance? A set of orders that you were over there, a pic or two, and ten cases of patches marked "Made in China" on the box? It's one thing if a guy is selling a patch or two he says he picked up at a place he can prove he was at, but you're apparently looking at this as a business venture...

 

There is really no way to prove whether a patch was made in Iraq or Thailand if we refuse to simply take your word for it. These other guys were/are there, just like you, and they have experiences to relate as well.

 

 

So what if he making some good money on the patches he is picking up while on duty over there! I hope he makes a bunch of money off the sale of these patches.

 

By the way, part of his provenance IS his orders and pictures of him over there wearing the patches.

 

They are definetely NOT made in China. In fact, that accusation is downright insulting.

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So what if he making some good money on the patches he is picking up while on duty over there! I hope he makes a bunch of money off the sale of these patches.

 

Me, too. I think if someone wants a "theater made" patch, all he has to do is sign a few pieces of paper and Uncle Sugar will gladly pay his airfare, lodging and meals while he goes and looks for one. Otherwise, he can pay whatever the guys who have them want.

 

By the way, part of his provenance IS his orders and pictures of him over there wearing the patches. They are definetely NOT made in China. In fact, that accusation is downright insulting.

 

Yes, yes, yes. You can put the outrage back in the package before it gets dirty and you can't return it...

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I appreciate the picture, but I have one too. The difference is that I didn't use mine to sell patches. The shop on base made patches from $7-$12. They made any patch you needed, and many Army units had them done. That, in my book, makes the term "Theater made" an extremely subjective matter. I could of have had a ton of 101st patches made that would of been legit considering 101st personnel moved through my location and some stayed for a time awaiting transportation. Examples from orders were plainly displayed. Please don't think that your 101st patches are the sole legit ones made. That all said, I sincerely appreciate your service.

 

-Ski

post-3043-1221688420.jpg

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I signed up for the patches... right now I'm just walking the beat in Baghdad to save money for the patches. I'll stick with what I know having been at Buehring, Taji, and hopefully VBC next week. I have gotten patches from those locations. I got them because I needed them, and to keep as a momento I suppose. David has the ability and drive to make a buck providing something that not every collector can get. Sure its easy to say they can request to come here but Sparky has already done his time while the life path for Rich and Paul took them somewhere else than Iraq. As a result, they are willing to pay extra, from a trusted source to them, for a piece of 101st History. It's comparable to someone finding a great grouping at a garage sale. Should they only sell it for a small amount over they paid or take advantage of the demand to fund their own collecting interest? They put in the work to get the item, they get the reward... Wondeful capitalism. And yes, there is provenance here. How many other threads do people salivate over a grouping where the items they have the vet is wearing in a photo, etc etc. I can tell you its a lot. We should be thankful someone is documenting these patches with firsthand knowledge. As has been said: If you dont like the price, don't buy.

 

Back to the patches. The first Eagles I got in Kuwait there was a Kuwaiti dude running the shop. He had extras so I didn't watch him make them. He had a couple sewing machines but thats all. Frankly, I didn't care. Taji was a different story. I wear the Ranger Tab. With ACUs, the tab by itself falls off... all the time when you dont your gear. Someone was smart enough to remove the velcro from their eagle patch, airborne tab, and ranger tab and sew them all to one piece of velcro, making it harder to lose them. I requested the Filipino workers at Taji to do the same. They did not have Ranger Tabs to do it so I left my US-made 3 piece example and said do the best you can. Came back a day later and it turns out I got a one of a kind patch with a different Eagle than their 'off the wall' version, and the airborne/ ranger tabs were actually one big tab. These cotton patches dont hold up well so my last trip there I asked for a couple more to be made, giving them the one they had previously made as an example. As you can see they came pretty darn close, but not perfect. Oh, and if you are still not a believer these patches were made in Iraq by Filipinos, take my company patch at the top. Had 4 of those made along with my two eagle patches with a turnaround of less than 36 hours. If they were able to make and ship those from the far east in that amount of time... my hats off to them.

 

post-537-1221688529.jpgpost-537-1221688557.jpg

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Sparkyasundevil
Me, too. I think if someone wants a "theater made" patch, all he has to do is sign a few pieces of paper and Uncle Sugar will gladly pay his airfare, lodging and meals while he goes and looks for one. Otherwise, he can pay whatever the guys who have them want.

Yes, yes, yes. You can put the outrage back in the package before it gets dirty and you can't return it...

 

 

What a clown!

 

Sorry, I've already worn it so I can't return it.

 

This is a fairly typicle response that you get on this forum. These are not only my feelings on this matter but also those shared by many that I know.

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I signed up for the patches... right now I'm just walking the beat in Baghdad to save money for the patches.

 

That got me to laughing, reminded me of when we were all freezing our butts off in our GP large in Bosnia one winter night. Everyone was tucked in their sleeping bags and the lights were out, all the young bucks started talking about why they joined. Me and the SNCO were just listening. Eventually someone said, "hey Top, why did you join?". Tony waited a second and said "I joined for the p__sy and the per diem, anything more than that and you'll come away disappointed". Always leave it to a SNCO to tell it like it is!

 

:)

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That got me to laughing, reminded me of when we were all freezing our butts off in our GP large in Bosnia one winter night. Everyone was tucked in their sleeping bags and the lights were out, all the young bucks started talking about why they joined. Me and the SNCO were just listening. Eventually someone said, "hey Top, why did you join?". Tony waited a second and said "I joined for the p__sy and the per diem, anything more than that and you'll come away disappointed". Always leave it to a SNCO to tell it like it is!

 

:)

 

 

:lol:

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