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Fake Theater made patches


heady506th
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I remember on this forum a while back I was told by several members that its too early and not profitable to repro the current OIF patches and that any desert patch not made in USA is a theater made patch. I don't think ones made in Hong Kong qualify as theater made, but once again here's proof believe it or not. Not intending to start another argument with the so called experts here just make your own conclusions here's the evidence. If you check his other auctions you may see some of the patches I have been calling fakes all along. This is not the only seller from China or the only pattern will add more here as I find them.

David

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/US-ARMY-101st-Airborne...id=p3911.c0.m14

 

if link does not work here's the item number

220271055243

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101combatvet

I was told the same by many collectors here..... theater made to them actually means made anywhere but in the U.S. of A. "Iraqi made' and 'theater made" are two different things.

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Here is a DCU uniform I was issued in Iraq and had theater patches sewn on. The desert patch brown is a lot more of a reddich brown and the theater patches I have seen match it, but the fonts of the lettering are a little off.

 

Example...

 

Wayne

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A few more that don't qualify either but are proof that once bought from this seller and turned.... sworn up and down by the community at large to be a theater made patch cause it doesn't look right...and I could go on and on ebay is full of them. This area is already as bad as vietnam theater made just no one wants to admit it yet. The best thing I can suggest is to get it directly from a vet or a uniform that it is sewn on. But pretty soon with the surplus of DCU's that will be faked as well if not already.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/101st-AIRBORNE-Divisio...p3286.m20.l1116

 

item 150119790090

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Another from same seller and I know for a fact someone out there claimed these before as original theater made...

http://cgi.ebay.com/101st-AIRBORNE-Divisio...p3286.m20.l1116

 

150119790346

 

 

I am just using the 101st as a quick example if you look at his other auctions you can see other units.... now once they leave this honest sellers hands where do you think they go and what do you think they are called when sold???

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One last one and I am off my soap box... Remember the so called DS ones with the camo background here's some to show not theater made!!!!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/101st-AIRBORNE-Divisio...p3286.m20.l1116

 

150119790372

 

I bet someone still buys all of these cause they got to have em..... anyway's here's the picture

 

These are not the ones I sell by the way.....

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Here's a link to some of mine and others real ones on this forum. While I cannot vouch where the others members patches came from all the ones in my post's on this link below come from Iraq and Kuwait from my numerous deployments and where I am still in Iraq.

Link

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...0&start=260

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Wow...I am not liking what I am seeing. thumbdown.gif . This is scary. Also, be aware of the MADE IN TAIWAN patches. They are reminiscent of Post WWII German Made patches, only in Desert, with merrow edges. Another sign of Taiwanese made is that the pigtail is hot glued to the patch. Also, they have a TON of snow on them, similar to Middle Eastern Made. Sometimes they still have thier MADE IN TAIWAN stickers on them. LOL.

Andrew

 

PS: These patches are pathetic attempts at a few bucks.

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Another from same seller and I know for a fact someone out there claimed these before as original theater made...

http://cgi.ebay.com/101st-AIRBORNE-Divisio...p3286.m20.l1116

 

150119790346

 

 

I am just using the 101st as a quick example if you look at his other auctions you can see other units.... now once they leave this honest sellers hands where do you think they go and what do you think they are called when sold???

 

 

Hi

 

Thanks for the heads up. Did buy some patches from this guy, non the wiser. Now i label them bought from this seller not in theater made.

 

Thanks

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Isnt a fake theater made patch an oxymoron? I've had patches made in SWA on and off for over 15 years, and I dont know how anyone could say with certainty that its theater made, the construction of those things is all over the road.

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I was told the same by many collectors here..... theater made to them actually means made anywhere but in the U.S. of A. "Iraqi made' and 'theater made" are two different things.

 

 

This is a good point to clarify, with Vietnam being a prime example.

 

During Vietnam, you might have patches made for a given unit both in Korea and Vietnam. A lot of Aviation unit patches have turned up being made in both places. And many times, both types were legitimately worn by members of the unit.

 

"Theater made" has become a generic term is sometimes used when a collector or dealer cannot narrow down the exact country of origin. Because of similarity of materials, a given patch may have been made in Vietnam, Korea, Thailand, the Philippines or Okinawa / Japan.

 

With an experienced eye and a little study, some of these can be filtered out as to their true origins. Korean made patches, for example, tend to be made by hand guided sewing machine. But for this period of history, there are exceptions to every rule you might vainly try to make. And even with experienced collectors, there are some patches that 35 years after the fact and with fading memories simply defy identification.

 

Having said that, we are talking about that were made during the period and could have been used by the troops or the airmen or the sailors of the unit.

 

The term "Theater Made" does not legitimize fakes and reproductions that are made anywhere in the world.

 

A more accurate description of some of these examples would be a "foreign made reproduction".

 

It is good that these are being identified now and tagged as reproductions from the start. This will save a lot of trouble in the future after this conflict finally ends.

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Greetings,

 

I rarely chime in (better to be seen than heard sometimes) but I spent most of my 16 months in Iraq, Kuwait and Qatar visiting stitch shops throughout those countries from APR03 to AUG04 (benefits of being an officer with teams scattered all over the place). Well, that and trying to avoid any real responsibility (and bullets). I took copious notes and photographed what I could. The big thing I noticed? Most patches were made by TCN (Third Country Nationals), especially Indians, Phillipino's and Pakistani's. The only place I knew (at the time) where actual IRAQI'S made patches, was at al Asad Airbase. If you went into Kuwait City and found a tailor's shop, then you found actual Kuwaiti's behind the sewing machine; otherwise, TCN's.

 

A fair number of "generic" patches (like the ones with scorpions, a deuce and a half or a South Park character) were made in bulk in Taiwan and the U.S. and "imported" so local stitch-men could embroider a particular Company or Battalion on the template....in bulk. Additionally, a lot of patches that were brought along by U.S. Units were ordered in bulk from any available source before leaving the MOB site. As an example: At Ft. Bliss, you simply couldn't find enough 90th DIV SSI so you ordered them on-line. To sort of dove-tail into what Gil said about senior NCO's and Officer's wanting to look sharp and spending money to buy new insignia, the same was said for, well....everybody. With that in mind, I wouldn't be so quick to discount a patch as "bogus" because it doesn't fit the norm. There was an 8th Division SSI pictured in an earlier post that is legit and of the same style as the 2nd ACR patches my Soldiers sewed on uniforms for the Regiment.

 

There were several distinct styles I observed while overseas, including U.S. 92S methods. Something to keep in mind with U.S. run renovation shops (in Theater) is that thread was not readily available through the supply chain during the first six to eight months following the invasion. Thread was bought on the local economy and quite often, it was 100% cotton. That was in Iraq; I can't comment on Kuwait. But, keep in mind that Doha and Arif Jon had full-time US military personnel present since the first Gulf War and a nifty cottage industry was cranking out patches since the 90's. Some of the display examples I picked up were a combination of cotton and synthetic threads (the really cool souvenir patches) as well as Unit patches that were cut-edge, merrowed edge, "dryer sheet" backed, etc.

 

I'll try to post some examples though I'm terminally lazy. Much to my ex-wife's chagrin, I spent most of my casual pay on insignia and SSI during my tour! That and shipping home a better part of the Iraqi Air Force CIF at al Asad Airbase via MRE boxes :)

 

Best,

 

Peter

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VERY valuable information, Peter

 

I wish there was some way we could keep that kind of stuff aside somewhere for future reference... maybe in a thread about that specific topic, not sure what it'd be titled.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Unfourtunately these are being sold as theater made as well. (Warning Pakistan is not our theater though someone will argue with me on this one guranteed)!!!! We are in IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, KUWAIT, and QUATAR. These are claiming Turkish roots (thought their Pakistani) I have been in the 101st since 1996....."news flash" and the 101st has never been to Turkey! Nor to my knowledge is there any Army personnel in Turkey. Haven't seen these worn by anyone in the Division strange.......None of these have been worn by the 101st!!!!....!!!! I have seen these shown as examples of what is offered from Pakistan!!!! Save your money get a real one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/101st-Abn-Army-Patch-T...oQQcmdZViewItem

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So how is it possible to tell a genuine theater made patch from a fake? I have no problems to see that some of the patches (like the Taiwan made patch in one of AndrewA74's post) showed in this thread doesn't look any good at all.

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Nor to my knowledge is there any Army personnel in Turkey.

 

Not arguing the patch, but EUCOM had a bunch of people in Turkey in the run up prior to OIF, part of the aborted attempt to get 4th ID and Brit 1 AD into Iraq from the north. I was in there doing surveys over a year before OIF started.

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Not arguing the patch, but EUCOM had a bunch of people in Turkey in the run up prior to OIF, part of the aborted attempt to get 4th ID and Brit 1 AD into Iraq from the north. I was in there doing surveys over a year before OIF started.

I remember that... I think there was the hope that something seriously Army could be launched vise-style to the south at the launch of OIF... and, maybe (I'm old a feeble, please forgive) our guys from Germany were going to be headed there?

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While their may have been a few people logisticians from 4th ID or whatever I remember them saying no to any US forces specifically ARMY UNITS on Turkish soil. The rest is history and I know for sure it wasn't the 101st we were in Kuwait so there ya go.

David

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While their may have been a few people logisticians from 4th ID or whatever I remember them saying no to any US forces specifically ARMY UNITS on Turkish soil. The rest is history and I know for sure it wasn't the 101st we were in Kuwait so there ya go.

David

Yup... so kinda hard for there to be any patches related, for sure.

 

I suppose this is part of the fascination, for me anyway, with patches... i.e. seeing into the actual deployment history of each unit over time, trying to cope with TDYs in that context and all the rest.

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So how is it possible to tell a genuine theater made patch from a fake? I have no problems to see that some of the patches (like the Taiwan made patch in one of AndrewA74's post) showed in this thread doesn't look any good at all.

 

To be quite honest its has gotten just as bad as the vietnam ones to figure out what is real. You have to hold a few originals and get a good idea as there are some tale tell signs that have been discussed at length in Andrew's topic that is pinned. The best thing I can tell you is get them straight from the vets or out of surplus stores close to army posts that aren't tracking what these are yet. If you buy from someone on ebay especially that sells a lot of other patches of a questionable nature or with an Asia connection good bet their no good. Also there is a lot of questionable ones turning up in the midwest and west cost now. Pretty good bet if the guy has tons of them and ain't a vet I would be very cautious where he obtained them. Because contrary to the rumors out there, the theater made patches are not bought by units and given to soliders and aren't cheap to buy. For example I am allowed to withdraw 200 from finace every month here. 90 percent of that goes to patches I buy and I still have no more than 15 patches per month to sell so you do the math.

David

 

PS However I do have every last one of the 101st ones that were produced in the areas we were at. I can tell a real or fake with certainty of the 101st ones. Once I get some down time hopefully within the next year I will share my catergory system of the 101st patches with everyone. As far as other units go they are up for grabs.

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To be quite honest its has gotten just as bad as the vietnam ones to figure out what is real. You have to hold a few originals and get a good idea as there are some tale tell signs that have been discussed at length in Andrew's topic that is pinned. The best thing I can tell you is get them straight from the vets or out of surplus stores close to army posts that aren't tracking what these are yet. If you buy from someone on ebay especially that sells a lot of other patches of a questionable nature or with an Asia connection good bet their no good. Also there is a lot of questionable ones turning up in the midwest and west cost now. Pretty good bet if the guy has tons of them and ain't a vet I would be very cautious where he obtained them. Because contrary to the rumors out there, the theater made patches are not bought by units and given to soliders and aren't cheap to buy. For example I am allowed to withdraw 200 from finace every month here. 90 percent of that goes to patches I buy and I still have no more than 15 patches per month to sell so you do the math.

David

 

PS However I do have every last one of the 101st ones that were produced in the areas we were at. I can tell a real or fake with certainty of the 101st ones. Once I get some down time hopefully within the next year I will share my catergory system of the 101st patches with everyone. As far as other units go they are up for grabs.

OIF4.jpg

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