grogsie_86 Posted December 28, 2015 Share #1 Posted December 28, 2015 hi all, hope it's ok to post this on this US forum! Came across this Irvin looking jacket.. weirdly despite being English myself I know a lot about USAAF and USN jackets but little about british RAF! Is anyone here able to tell me if this is an original WW2 Irvin/sub contracted jacket or not? Any help appreciated! Only these 3 not amazing photos I am afraid.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogsie_86 Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share #2 Posted December 28, 2015 from the little I do know.. it is probably not an early war jacket as they were made of two panels at the back, which this obviously isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebuddy Posted December 28, 2015 Share #3 Posted December 28, 2015 Not US ,so i see it getting locked pretty soon ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogsie_86 Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted December 28, 2015 ha I figured... just thought I'd try my luck in case anyone here knew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D. Posted December 28, 2015 Share #5 Posted December 28, 2015 My original has a Lightening Zipper, its hard to read, but it looks like yours is also a lightening. Mine is early war and as stated above, has a one piece back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogsie_86 Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted December 28, 2015 Thanks Steve, Are lighting zippers in that design a good indicator of it being a WW2? I know my Talon/Conmar but no little about Lightning. i think from a little picture hunting that it is a lightning, with the three little lines and "lightning" marked below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted December 28, 2015 Share #7 Posted December 28, 2015 Could or Would US flyers wear this jacket also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted December 28, 2015 Share #8 Posted December 28, 2015 Could or Would US flyers wear this jacket also? Yes they would and did. Not out of the ordinary in within the 8th AAF especially. Looks like a original later war multipanel irvin. The condition looks pretty rough, so be careful. Once these start deteriorating like this, it normally just keeps getting worse. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted December 28, 2015 Share #9 Posted December 28, 2015 Post will stay open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogsie_86 Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted December 28, 2015 good to hear, thanks guys. From my understanding many 8th AAF would get as much RAF kit as they could as it was much warmer! Thanks for the info JD... as you can see there is a big hole on the arm... is that repairable possibly with a patch job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D. Posted December 28, 2015 Share #11 Posted December 28, 2015 That's the right zipper for a WWII Jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogsie_86 Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share #12 Posted December 28, 2015 That's the right zipper for a WWII Jacket. Ok brilliant. I'm thinking of trying to restore the arm but needed to know if it was genuine before getting cracking. If anyone else has anymore info that'd be much appreciated. Sounds like it is an original so far.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Graffiti Posted December 28, 2015 Share #13 Posted December 28, 2015 Zipper has been replaced, it's a period zip but wrong for that jacket. Irvin's had a bigger flat pull stamped 'lightning' and on the reverse stamped 'AM' for Air Ministry. AG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogsie_86 Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share #14 Posted December 28, 2015 Zipper has been replaced, it's a period zip but wrong for that jacket. Irvin's had a bigger flat pull stamped 'lightning' and on the reverse stamped 'AM' for Air Ministry. AG Hi AG, thanks for this. I will get better pictures in a week or so when I actually get the jacket. For now though, I think I can see "lightning" stamped on the zipper? I have seen a number of bits around the web stating lightning zippers were used, although as you say maybe this is just a period replacement and not the original. If when i get it, it has "AM" on the back, would that be a good indicator that it is the original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted December 28, 2015 Share #15 Posted December 28, 2015 Its a great Irvin. Got my first one when I was a kid. Made 100 times better than a B-3. owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Graffiti Posted December 28, 2015 Share #16 Posted December 28, 2015 Grogsie, it won't be AM stamped, this is a commercial model LIGHTNING zip, however as a replacement it's fine for this jacket, more than likely a period repair. Like I said it looks to be a 1940s 50s model zip. The main concern is that rip in the sheepskin, very difficult stuff to repair, probably best to replace whole panels carefully re-sewing thru original stitch marks. AG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogsie_86 Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted December 28, 2015 Grogsie, it won't be AM stamped, this is a commercial model LIGHTNING zip, however as a replacement it's fine for this jacket, more than likely a period repair. Like I said it looks to be a 1940s 50s model zip. The main concern is that rip in the sheepskin, very difficult stuff to repair, probably best to replace whole panels carefully re-sewing thru original stitch marks. AG Thanks so much for the info. Ok good to know, always nice if there's a replacement zipper to the original that at least it is likely a contemporary one eh! I'll see how I get on with repairing the arm and post some pics if it works.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki Posted December 29, 2015 Share #18 Posted December 29, 2015 Hi grogsie 86, Here is my late war turned sheep irving flight jacket to compare with your jacket for to the restoration project. A little warning with this jackets, you have two kind of leather on these jackets ( version1 sheep leather is like cow leather shiny, version2 turned sheep leather is like dull-colored). If you have a version 1 you have to treat it with special oil ,version 2 dont need any care only the yearly swip with a cloth. The special oil i use for my jackets is the kind of a horsesadle oil that other collectors use. I sold my pre war irving beqause the jacket was beginning to parch and it was falling apart at the weak spots. With irving jackets you can see when the jacket was produced by how many patches of leather it had, my pre war was in 2 big pieces of leather made. The reason about this is how longer the war proceded there where not many sheep left to make these jackets so they took the remnant what they have left over. It is a fact that US pilots wear the irving jackets not only US pilots but also GERMAN pilots like german ace Adolf Galand preffered the irving over the kanaljake( pict incl.). This info i have received by a gentleman who lived on the airfield of Antwerp that was captured by germans through the war so he saw it with is own eyes, who is also one of my friends and collector of WW2 militaria air force gear. I hope with these little bit of info you can restore this beautiful jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki Posted December 29, 2015 Share #19 Posted December 29, 2015 here is the german kanaljake. and a close pict of the lightning zipper of the irving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navybean Posted December 30, 2015 Share #20 Posted December 30, 2015 Could or Would US flyers wear this jacket also? I believe that some USN Fliers who flew Spitfires during DDAY as a recon pilots wore this jacket. there are examples of pictures of USN pilots in the book " spear Heading D-Day" by Gwane of them wearing Irvin jackets while flying these planes leased by the British to the USN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navybean Posted December 30, 2015 Share #21 Posted December 30, 2015 I believe that some USN Fliers who flew Spitfires during DDAY as a recon pilots wore this jacket. there are examples of pictures of USN pilots in the book " spear Heading D-Day" by Gwane of them wearing Irvin jackets while flying these planes leased by the British to the USN Second look at this book and I could be wrong, the pilots were arty spoters and they have RAF gear but jackets appears to be M445 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki Posted December 30, 2015 Share #22 Posted December 30, 2015 Hi navybean, The US navy have never been in contact with the irving jacket only the mighty eight in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogsie_86 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share #23 Posted December 30, 2015 Hi grogsie 86, Here is my late war turned sheep irving flight jacket to compare with your jacket for to the restoration project. A little warning with this jackets, you have two kind of leather on these jackets ( version1 sheep leather is like cow leather shiny, version2 turned sheep leather is like dull-colored). If you have a version 1 you have to treat it with special oil ,version 2 dont need any care only the yearly swip with a cloth. The special oil i use for my jackets is the kind of a horsesadle oil that other collectors use. I sold my pre war irving beqause the jacket was beginning to parch and it was falling apart at the weak spots. With irving jackets you can see when the jacket was produced by how many patches of leather it had, my pre war was in 2 big pieces of leather made. The reason about this is how longer the war proceded there where not many sheep left to make these jackets so they took the remnant what they have left over. It is a fact that US pilots wear the irving jackets not only US pilots but also GERMAN pilots like german ace Adolf Galand preffered the irving over the kanaljake( pict incl.). This info i have received by a gentleman who lived on the airfield of Antwerp that was captured by germans through the war so he saw it with is own eyes, who is also one of my friends and collector of WW2 militaria air force gear. I hope with these little bit of info you can restore this beautiful jacket. Hi Niki, Thanks so much for the info! Your irvin looks beautiful. I really hope mine can be fixed and not cost an absolute fortune (as you can hole/tear is pretty substantial.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogsie_86 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share #24 Posted December 30, 2015 here is the german kanaljake. and a close pict of the lightning zipper of the irving. I actually quite like these jackets... I'm lucky enough to own a number of original US flying jackets (M-422, M-422a, An-j-3a, B-10, b-15 and b-15a!!) This Irvin is my first RAF. Always steered clear of german jackets but some of the Luftwaffe ones like this look nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve S. Posted January 3, 2016 Share #25 Posted January 3, 2016 Hi Niki, Thanks so much for the info! Your irvin looks beautiful. I really hope mine can be fixed and not cost an absolute fortune (as you can hole/tear is pretty substantial.. I have a bunch of shearling around here. If you need some pieces to use for repair parts, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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