Captain's FB with "Follow Me" stripe and matching Inland airborne liner

[McDermut99]

GeneralCheese, as of now there is little info to go on. Any additional info you can get from the seller will help.

 

Right now I think we are all anxious to find out if our suspicions are in fact true or not.

 

 

Edit:

Darn siege. I was hoping it was Sobel's sister, but apparently not. Doesn't mean the helmet isn't his though!

[dskjl]

Looking at the Captains bars, it looks to me as if they may have been added over a previously applied Lt Bar which I really like. On the name on the back I'm not to keen on it, and the "101" also kind of bugs me. I have been looking online for pics of the Capt in question and found a couple, one wearing a helmet but it's tough to see if it is ranked and he looks young to have been a capt at this point. A second photo shows a more mature Sobel with a ranked capt helmet.

 

This is a very cool helmet either way. Congrats Ben, I hope the truth finds it's way to you and its Capt Sobel's.

 

What do you think?

[dskjl]

full pic

 

[Ronnie]

Also a possibility is that the first name is not RUTH but ROLF. There is a descender on the last letter of the first name. Which would make more sense with the Mr.

I totally agree with jkash that the letter is addressed to a Rolf not Ruth.

Ronnie

[TheMariner]

That would be incredible of that is Herbert Sobel's helmet. His life and death are actually both rather sad stories in life after serving faithfully in 2 wars for his country he attempted suicide and survived the attempt i do not know if it was PTSD related or if he had other issues in his life, he did not even receive a proper burial when he died. In death he has been portrayed in books and Band of Brothers Tv series as an idiot and incompetent leader. Which may have been true and part of it may have been dramatized a good bit. I hope this is his help so maybe for once a little bit of respect can be given to this true american hero that he is surely due !!

[USMC-RECON0321]

Captain Herbert Sobel was Jewish.

 

That is a good point.

[USMC-RECON0321]

Could you post a couple of pictures of the inside of the shell to compare wear and stains between the shell and liner? There is some pretty distinct staining showing on the exterior of the liner that should match up pretty easy with the interior of the shell. Also, one thing I usually see on matched painted sets is matching leadership stripes (If painted at the same time) and the shell has a long and narrow stripe while the liner stripe is shorter and wider.

 

Don't take this wrong, I think the markings are "one lookers", just want to see the connection of the inland liner to the fixed loop shell.

[GeneralCheese]

Here you go.

[GeneralCheese]

Matching rust markings on the liner:

 

[USMC-RECON0321]

I would agree and that is a good sign. Check that box!!

 

Thanks
Troy

[USMC-RECON0321]

Good matches on both sides.

 

 

 

 

 

[WW2JAKE]

That would be incredible of that is Herbert Sobel's helmet. His life and death are actually both rather sad stories in life after serving faithfully in 2 wars for his country he attempted suicide and survived the attempt i do not know if it was PTSD related or if he had other issues in his life, he did not even receive a proper burial when he died. In death he has been portrayed in books and Band of Brothers Tv series as an idiot and incompetent leader. Which may have been true and part of it may have been dramatized a good bit. I hope this is his help so maybe for once a little bit of respect can be given to this true american hero that he is surely due !!

Bill Guarnere apparently contacted Sobel's sister in the 80's and she said he was mentally unhealthy and still angry and blamed the men of Easy Co for his transfer to jump school. I am unsure if this contact was made before or after his death... but have also been told his family didnt even attend a service for him but the story is that no one in the family was even informed of his death until at least a week after his death and by then he had already been cremated and so on.

 

on an other note, his son Michael attended a 2002 Easy Co reunion. in which he gave a speech and said

 

"I never knew about my father's wartime service. He never talked about it. He spent 20 years in the Army, and retired as a Lt. Col. I didn't think much about why he didn't talk about it, but I certainly know now. I don't really know how anyone else might have seen him, but I can tell you this. He was the best, most loving father anyone could have." He went on to say that his coming to this reunion was very important for him and that he would forever be grateful that he had come and that "after meeting all of the gathered guests, I know my dad would be very proud of you all."

 

he also made this post after BOB came out

 

"Thanks so much for the interest. I really don't know much about my fathers WWII experience. I do know however how he was as a father. I was dismayed to see how he was portrayed. Nobody could have had a more loving caring and attentive father. He was loved by all, never used profanity, and didn't have a malicious bone in his body. He absoultely adored my mother. I guess from a historical point of view the author is guilty of omission. My father began his military career at Culver military academy, and retired honorably as a lieutenant colonel, and although I don't have his military records he was given the purple heart. I find it difficult to believe that anybody who performed as he was alleged to would have reached that rank. He had in excess of 20 years military service, and continued in the reserves regularly. Perhaps his portrayal is accurate, although my mother also has a hard time believing it. If that be the case, I am certain my father did what he felt was necessary to steel the men in easy company for the war experience. From the point of view of all family members he was everything a father could be. He and I did have differing views of American policy during the VietNam debacle. He was torn knowing that the war was unjust, and he had two of three sons draftable. I was an active protester in college. This weighed heavily on his psyche. Thanks again for your interest in my father. I will acquire his records, and hopefully contact some of his comrads.

Aloha,

Michael H. Sobel (second son of Herbert M. Sobel)"

[zippy144]

Hi

 

I have checked through my 101 rosters, there only 2 listed Sobels in the 101st. Both in 506th.

 

Herbert Micheal Sobel - 0-304109 - He is listed from Ilinois.

 

Micheal J Sobel - 31004415 - He was a private and from Mass.

 

I personally love the helmet, i just hate it when a "known" name and unit is painted on a helmet because it throws so much dout over what is a quality item on it's own.

 

Regards

 

Tom

[ken88]

If it were Sobel's, that would be really cool!

[Burning Hazard]

Very interesting helmet! could it actually belong to the famous Herbert Sobel? Maybe, but some questions do arise.

 

- Herbert Sobel ended his career as a Lt Colonel, do you think he would of ditched his helmet and get a new one as a major?

 

- There are several H. Sobel listed on the NARA site, there could of been more records but they may not be listed because of the great records fire.

 

- 101 may not necessarily mean "101st Airborne", it could be last 3 digits of ASN, regiment number, or just something to quick ID the helmet.

 

- From my readings, sometimes army/infantry ended up with an airborne liner (Just as airborne ended up with M1941 jackets, tanker jackets or air force clothing etc), not common but it did happen. Could this be an example of that? Maybe that's why the A-yokes are tucked in?

 

In all, I really hope this ends up being Herbert Sobel's helmet, it would be a massive piece of history!

 

Also, any way to contact Herber Sobel's son Michael to ID whether the handwriting is his father's?

 

Just some thoughts

 

Pat

[Burning Hazard]

Oh and another thing, the shell paint looks like a typical late war applied; I have a 2nd Lt shell with the exact same color. I was told the paint is WW2 vehicle paint.

[ken88]

Any information on the lot number in that helmet?

 

Cheers

[doyler]

Where is APO472 when we need him....

[GeneralCheese]

Heat lot # is 231A.

 

[WW2JAKE]

Also, any way to contact Herber Sobel's son Michael to ID whether the handwriting is his father's?

 

Just some thoughts

 

Pat

I have a possible phone number. but i dont know if he could be of help with this one?

[doyler]

I have it on pretty good authority that this is not SOBELs helmet. THERE are documents from the unit that show Sobel apparently getting a promotion in March of 1945 so he would not have been a captain at wars end or occupation time frame for the helmet would not have retained its rank in my thought process as he was a career Officer and would have up graded the Captain rank.

 

Dont want to burst the bubble or throw a monkey wrench into the pie but you need to follow the paper trail.Also Shovel being a professional soldier and portrayed as a by the book and rule to the letter soldier and officer he most assuredly would have had the correct rank....and a liner no doubt with the unit marks as the liners were painted more than not during the pist WW2 months while in garrison duty and reporting to wage war on Japan.

[Justin]

What if he had more than one helmet?

[doyler]

^{What if he had more than one helmet?}

 

^{Mmmm...possible? but doubtful to me.This opens the question...where did Sobel loose his helmet?When was it replaced,Where was his combat at that time his helmet was damaged beyond wear?}

 

^{There is the replacement scenario...lost,broken,replaced etc.But evidence in other areas show officers and enlisted often repairing the helmets and multiple times at that.Items were not just haphazardly thrown away or replaced with out good cause or reason.I realize officers can have advantages but when I speak to vets over the years most even speak about how hard it was to get clean or new sox.Helmets were a different animal.If you needed one you may have to take a KIA helmet or get one from a pile of reclaimed gear taken from wounded or KIA.}

 

^{Why is the liner not tac/spade marked?}

 

^{How many Helmets did Eisenhower have?...I realize he wasnt prone to wearing one but he had a helmet.Patton on the other hand may have had more than one or more than one liners as he wore one more often.}

 

^{I see a post about contacting the son but in the sons own words quoated from a speech he gave he knew nothing about his fathers service.So why would he know anything about a helmet?}

 

^{Not being arguementative but speculation or reading in scenarios just keeps us going in circles}

[ken88]

IMO, if it's Sobel's, it's probably a piece that never left the States, that could have been used in training in Toccoa Georgia. The fixed bail shell is late 1942, so is the Inland liner. That's a matching time frame, this is an early paratrooper piece. As D-bails were scarce even at the time, it could well have been Sobel's.

 

The repaint however casts some doubt on the time frame, that being said, if it were Sobel's and if it did go overseas, you'd most certainly see a completely other helmet.

 

Good luck on the research. I kind of hope it turns out to be his..

 

Cheers,

Ken

[ken88]

By the way, a 101st lid without markings, that just screams training. Most men would have painted their helmets overseas, in England.

 

IMO it's the only explanation and it could well be his. Then of course he would have been issued another helmet, probably in 1943.