Brian Keith Posted December 14, 2015 Share #1 Posted December 14, 2015 This Victory Model is in excellent condition, I found it in a “big box” sporting goods store, probably a bit overpriced, but the condition sold me. I love WW II era firearms, and I didn’t have an example of one of these. The numbers under the grips are matching to the SN. I sent away for the “Factory Letter” and after a few weeks, Mr. Jinks informed me it was shipped February 2, 1944, to the United States Maritime Commission, Reading, Pennsylvania. I suspect it had very little if any service use. Thanks for looking, comments welcome. BKW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1Garandy Posted December 14, 2015 Share #2 Posted December 14, 2015 Nice Victory. Curious with it having gone to the Maritime Commission, is the topstrap marked or unmarked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Keith Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted December 14, 2015 Thanks for your comments, the top strap is unmarked. The “Defense Supplies Corporation” (DSC) guns only had the Ordnance “Flaming Bomb” insignia on them on the butt, opposite the SN. The "Lend-Lease" guns were all marked like this S&W .38 Hand Ejector "Military & Police" Model of 1905, 4th Change example I also have. Actual Military Contract guns were also usually marked in a variety of ways, (US NAVY, US PROPERTY etc.) These guns are very interesting because of the variety of markings to be found. As with many military collectables, some have had fake markings applied in an attempt to increase their sale price. People that do this are pond scum. Charles W. Pate’s book, US Handguns of WW II, The Secondary Pistols and Revolvers, has a great chapter on these Victory Models. Thanks for your comments! BKW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Keith Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share #4 Posted April 21, 2020 I’m bringing this thread back up as I have a question. As noted, my revolver was sent to the United States Maritime Commission. What were they used for? I can assume/speculate a few things, does anybody know for sure? Shipbuilding dock security? Was there any type of armory on board? Were certain officers and crew issued them? I know during WW II, there were Armed Guard detachments of US Navy personnel on US merchant ships that were armed with various large caliber guns. I’m not sure what small arms they would have but I wouldn’t think they would draw arms from the US Maritime Commission stores. Thanks for your comments, BKW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted July 8, 2021 Share #5 Posted July 8, 2021 Brian, great looking Victory! You raise some good questions. I just saw your post as I was getting ready to ask similar questions on this model. Most, if not all, of the lettered Victory models I’ve seen show a warehouse type shipping location for the Maritime Commission and were all inland and not along the coast. The one I have was shipped to Charlotte, N.C. Who guarded the ships at port? Liberty Ships sailed with a convoy, and I thought they were supported by onboard armed Army personnel? Didn’t the USMM fall under the US Navy? As I understand it, the US Maritime Commission (USMC) was formed to build cargo ships, the US Maritime Service (USMS) was the training school and the actual personnel were US Merchant Marines (USMM). I have a couple of Victory models and I usually try to display them with related insignia, patches, etc. I would like to learn who the end users were of these Victory models and put a display together. Thanks for looking and comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted July 8, 2021 Share #6 Posted July 8, 2021 It is an interesting question. I suspect that the guns without top strap markings were for guards. However, early in the war, the MC was also responsible for filling the arms lockers of the Liberty and Victory ships it was providing under Lend-Lease. I would assume those were U.S. Property marked but who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin Posted July 8, 2021 Share #7 Posted July 8, 2021 This topic reminded of a document I have that may be of extreme interest to certain parties. The letter from Brauer Bros. essentially speaks for itself, the censored information is classified information, temporarily for My-Eyes-Only. This letter was in response to the BuOrd on behalf of the BuAer looking for a shoulder holster to adopt. Luckily, they speak of their specific model, K34. Here is an example of a K34 by Brauer Bros. Now, I am not certain on era of this specific example so cannot confirm if this is the exact 10,000 procured by the USMC. The buckle as referenced in the last paragraph was part of the assembly of the non-elastic cotton webbing, the example on this holster is not brass rather a cast alloy like pot metal or something. The snap fastener is on the web belt securing strap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted July 8, 2021 Share #8 Posted July 8, 2021 Dustin, great post! You have peaked my interest especially with the redacted sentence! 10,000 holsters just for the US Maritime Commission is a lot of holsters. By the way, mine was also shipped February 2, 1944 and has no property stamping on the top strap nor ordnance bomb on the butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin Posted July 8, 2021 Share #9 Posted July 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, digi-shots said: Dustin, great post! You have peaked my interest especially with the redacted sentence! 10,000 holsters just for the US Maritime Commission is a lot of holsters. By the way, mine was also shipped February 2, 1944 and has no property stamping on the top strap nor ordnance bomb on the butt. I was sitting on that little spit of info for many years, this seemed like the most opportune time than any as it is covering USMC .38 Special's. Also note in the document it states that other government agencies were using that model as well. I'm pretty sure I have some other records pertaining to Merchant Marine and the .38 but will have to hunt. The redacted information is not earth shattering but pertaining to unpublished information. It and along with information of other records will be in my Small Arms chapter in Volume-4 of my series, projected for release near Xmas as well for Vol-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted July 8, 2021 Share #10 Posted July 8, 2021 Dustin, thanks for the follow up. When I saw mention of “other government agencies”, I thought it might be OSS or intel related, especially since the Bauer holsters do not have the US logo stamped on the front. Anything else you have pertaining to the Merchant Marines use of the Victory model would be great. I look forward to reading your Small Arms publication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Keith Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share #11 Posted July 12, 2021 Great additional information everyone! But I think it leaves me with more questions, than I had before! Why would the US Maritime Commission need 10,000 shoulder holsters? Shoulder holsters are used for concealed carry, in general, uniformed personnel do not conceal carry. Factory guards and port security would open carry I would think. Very interesting! I hope we find more information! As they say, the plot thickens! Best Regards! BKW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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