M1 Helmet, Hawley liner, cammo paint and ID'd to 70th Infantry ?

[jkash23686]

I like the liner. The shell is interesting. If the price is right jump on it. I don't think the liner and shell have been together since the war. The camo on the shell is just strange. Someone had access to quite a lot of white paint, but they did not paint the entire helmet white. The PFC mark looks fresher than the white splotches, and a different color. So it was painted later than the camo. Just odd.

 

The liner is nice and correct, so just that is worth the buy. But the lack of insect damage or rust marks on the fabric of the Hawley almost make me certain the liner was not with the shell and has not been for very long.

 

Even if its not a matching set, I've seen WWII camos that look exactly like this M1. So worst case you have an awesome 70th ID liner and a Nice camo M1. I did think like you that the PFC mark was a bit bright but could also just be the pics. I'd still snag this sucker.

[Ronny67]

Agreed, J. I think the two pieces are both good in their own right.

[stealthytyler]

What if the liner was displayed by the vet and the shell sat in the shed collecting weather. One way for there to be rust on shell and not on liner.

[TMCA05]

Finally got it today. I had to pay a good fair price for it, but I am very happy to have it.

It was found in a thrift shop in Nashville, Tennessee. Now I have to try a find out who actually owned it.

[Morlok]

Boy, wouldn't it be nice to find something like that in Goodwill!? Very nice pickup!

[TMCA05]

Here it is again, finally in my collection.

[TMCA05]

Both the liner at the shell have a silver "4B" written in them. I am not sure why?

[TMCA05]

Looks like part of a service number, maybe x5588 ???

If I can find a list of all te Caldwell's in the 70th and their service numbers, I would be in luck. That would be a long shot.

 

 

 

 

[Bodes]

Boy, wouldn't it be nice to find something like that in Goodwill!? Very nice pickup!

 

Somewhat strange if it did....Goodwill franchises have their own online auction sites....Would be curious as to why it wasn't sold there?....Bodes

[BEAST]

Camo Helmet 70th 051 cp number.jpgLooks like part of a service number, maybe x5588 ???

If I can find a list of all te Caldwell's in the 70th and their service numbers, I would be in luck. That would be a long shot.

 

It will take a little work, but try http://www.wwii-enlistment.com

 

Enter his last name and His laundry number (C-last four) and you may get a hit. That will give you a start in researching him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TMCA05]

I will try that WWII enlistment site, Thanks !

 

I first thought the seller said that it was found in a Goodwill, but later when I asked him to be more specific, he said it was found in a thrift shop and he told me which one.

Yes, I went by to see if I could trace it back and they had nothing else that may have come with it. They do not remember exactly were they received it, but they do buy a lot of church donations and they said and it probably came from one of those.

[TMCA05]

 

If the laundry number is 5538, (hard to read), them this may be a match.

There was a John Caldwell in the 70th ID who's service number was 33215538.

 

I found a program for a play being performed just at the end of the war which has a Pfc John Caldwell listed with the 70th ID

 

 

 

 

 

[TMCA05]

 

Looks like this guy moved from Virginia to Trenton, Tennessee, then went to school in Lebanon, TN in 1934.

Helmet was found in Nashville, TN which is right between Trenton and Lebanon, TN.

This all assumes that this is the same guy, which it may not be.

 

 

[jkash23686]

Killer helmet and great research.

[Ronny67]

I think the "4b" number is silver sharpie, which is most certainly post WWII. My hypothesis on what it could be is that this helmet was subject to some kind of auction, or storage scenario were the shell and liner were numbered together, rather crudely.

 

It does look great in your hands. Nice set.

[TMCA05]

The number 4B is not done is silver, I misquoted that. When I had it in the sun, it looked silver, but it is not.

The 4B is in the same shade of white paint as was used on his name Caldwell.

The white name and the white Ax paint, are two different shades of white paint as well. They were not painted at the same time.

[KevinS]

Dave the different shades of white for the name and the axe make perfect sense! In my trailblazer magazines you can see guys with only the axe on their liner without their last name so I suppose some guys did the white axe only for a while.

[Ronnie]

Post #37 shows his Education-Grammar School.

Ronnie

[TMCA05]

 

Why sometimes the patina in a helmet shell does not match the outside of a liner.

These photos are taken from estate sale. The sale starts tomorrow. The liner was found inside the house and the shell in the garage/barn. They obviously go together and are from the same officer.

[David D]

Love that Lt. Shell!

[USMC-RECON0321]

Thanks for posting those pictures. That should be on a calendar, Nothing like finding a nice M1 in a junk sale box. Just like a dirt encrusted muscle car behind an old barn.

 

Hopefully you get it.

 

Good luck
Troy

[TMCA05]

Unfortunately I can not make the sale, but do have a "picker" friend who is planning to get there very early and I hope he can grab both parts for me. I made him a very good offer on them if he succeeds. If he does, I told him to look for anything else, including the name of the officer.

Those photos are from the estate sales listing on-line. It is obvious that the Hawley liner was keep inside on a shelf or something, it looks to nice to have been left in the garage/barn with the dirty shell.

[TMCA05]

My picker friend picked up the above M1 helmet and liner for me. It will be a few days until I meet up with him to get it.

Several forum member's PM'd me and wanted to know were the sale was. I wanted to wait until I secured the helmet first before letting the info out.

 

https://www.estatesales.net/KY/Pembroke/42266/1134324

 

Above is a link to the sale and you can see photos of the helmet, house and barn. The sale goes until Saturday afternoon.

The owner of the helmet died in 2005 and is widow just died a few months ago. He was a WW2 veteran and a Captain when he was separated.

Hopkinsville, KY Capt. Norman Lazare, died July 28, 2005.

Picker did say that the liner was in the house and the shell was in the barn.

[USMC-RECON0321]

 

Several forum member's PM'd me and wanted to know were the sale was. I wanted to wait until I secured the helmet first before letting the info out.

 

 

 

Smart move!! We've seen that dance before!! LOL

[ScottG]

Here is a link to an M-1/Hawley combination right from the vets Daughter. He was in the 86th Division which arrived in the ETO later than the 70th and this is the helmet he wore. He was able to keep it as he was promoted and shipped over to the Philippines when the war in Europe ended. I received many of his items direct from him, but while we were working together on more, he passed away and his Daughter brought me this helmet and an SS helmet he sent home. So, looks like Hawleys made their way to the ETO late in the war, I would guess more on an individual basis than being issued to a unit.

I like these debates about "that wasn't done" or "this wasn't worn here" as they do tend to bring out some great pictures and interesting arguments. I have one of my Wife's Grandfathers hbt shirts from the 13th Armored Division. He went over in Jan 45 and was a linesman by mos but was assigned as a bazooka man to an infantry battalion. He received a c.i.b. and the hbt shirt has the 13th ssi on the sleeve as he wore it in combat... Scott

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/259440-86th-division-stencil-rank-helmet-whawley-liner/