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would you return items you paid for to family?


WW2JAKE
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At the end of the day, it's really a case-by-case basis. All situations are different, all people are different, and the decision is ultimately made after all these things are taken into consideration...case-by-case

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Patchcollector

At the end of the day, it's really a case-by-case basis. All situations are different, all people are different, and the decision is ultimately made after all these things are taken into consideration...case-by-case

 

 

Well put.I share this view.

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Absolutely! I don't think there can be an absolute set of rules for dealing with a situation like this. It really would depend on the individual situation and person and also, the individual who has the option to keep or return (either give or for pay) the item(s). I guess each person would have to make the call at the time.

 

 

At the end of the day, it's really a case-by-case basis. All situations are different, all people are different, and the decision is ultimately made after all these things are taken into consideration...case-by-case

 

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I don't know what I would do, but I thought I would have to make that decision a couple years ago. Two brothers were selling their fathers items which included a B14 jacket with a caterpillar pin on it. I had contact with one of them to ask if they knew the circumstance of their father getting the pin. He seemed surprised when I mentioned it was on the uniform and I thought that he was going to ask for it back, he didn't. He did tell me about how the pin was awarded. I asked if he had any photos of his father in uniform, which he did and sent me a copy. He is wearing the B14 just as I got it!

 

Ray

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The question is: first items where sold, so it means they have no interest in, and now there is any interest? But if they want to buy it back - no problem.

 

I can just offer my personal experience with this...long story short, I was verbally bequeathed a readily-identifiable item of militaria with significant family history, in front of a dozen other family members. The bequeathing family member passed, and before anyone else even knew he had died his meth-head son had sold everything in the house including said item of militaria.

 

Gone.

 

Many years later, that particular item shows up on Ebay. I found it completely by accident. I paid twice what it was worth to get it. So don't just assume an item is in the market only because no family member wanted it.

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I can just offer my personal experience with this...long story short, I was verbally bequeathed a readily-identifiable item of militaria with significant family history, in front of a dozen other family members. The bequeathing family member passed, and before anyone else even knew he had died his meth-head son had sold everything in the house including said item of militaria.

 

Gone.

 

Many years later, that particular item shows up on Ebay. I found it completely by accident. I paid twice what it was worth to get it. So don't just assume an item is in the market only because no family member wanted it.

agree 100%

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I can just offer my personal experience with this...long story short, I was verbally bequeathed a readily-identifiable item of militaria with significant family history, in front of a dozen other family members. The bequeathing family member passed, and before anyone else even knew he had died his meth-head son had sold everything in the house including said item of militaria.

 

Gone.

 

Many years later, that particular item shows up on Ebay. I found it completely by accident. I paid twice what it was worth to get it. So don't just assume an item is in the market only because no family member wanted it.

Absolutely true. Despite a horrible experience with a family, I keep an open mind when this situation comes up, because not all family members get a fair chance when estates are broken up for multiple reasons. I think collectors need to understand that, just as I think families looking to reunite with lost artifacts need to understand that the current owner (more than likely) did nothing wrong by obtaining said item. Usually when both parties have this mutual understanding, do the situations end well.

 

PS - thanks Dave for the award... The prestige I'd have rather never had- good grief.

 

Kyle

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  • 2 weeks later...

Touchy subject.

 

I returned a couple Japanese swords recently to a family.

 

I had them over 30 years-not anythinh significant.

I was raised around these folks and the father gave them to me as I was interested in that stuff as a kid.

There were tons of that stuff around.

A son asked me what the circumstances were.

 

I don't know what they did with them, but they are back home. I still have a T97 sniper scope and case I bought from another son.

 

I'd say this is a personal call, based on circumstances, relationships, intentions, and value.

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Assuming the item was not stolen, I would probably pay twice too much to get a family treasure back. I would not expect someone to just give it back simply because it once belonged to my

deceased " Uncle Fred ".

 

Just me.

 

 

Wharf

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Assuming the item was not stolen, I would probably pay twice too much to get a family treasure back. I would not expect someone to just give it back simply because it once belonged to my

deceased " Uncle Fred ".

 

Just me.

 

 

Wharf

this makes me curious. What would you and others do if say... your grandfather's uniform was stolen and you stumbled across a craigslist listing the next week with it for sale.
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Years ago a friend of mine was a WWII crew chief with the 359th Fighter Group. He and I were members of the same Rotary Club. We use to chat about the war quite often. When he passed his wife wanted me to have his uniform and overseas cap. I mentioned to his son that I was uncomfortable taking it but the son insisted, because that is what his Mother wanted. Several years later when the mother passed away I asked the son if he would like his Father's uniform. He was very happy and grateful that I offered it back as he eventually would want his son to have it (the Vet's grandson). Gave me much pleasure to return it where it rightfully belonged.

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That was a nice deed scraecrow, you knew the family and where it was going...

I would only return an item to the vet, unless I knew the family...

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I know that I replied to this topic earlier. I'm still in favor of doing it depending on the circumstances.

 

Years ago I was given a small white box that had a variety of buttons in pins worn on the uniforms of ancestors on my mother's side of the family. It was given to me by my mother because I was the only one who would understand its significance. It has stayed in my possession for my own children to see and enjoy for posterity and I will continue to protect it because the contents were collected by my mother and her mother before her. To me, it's not about the value of the items, its about who wore them. One of the uniform items is from the Revolutionary War and there are buttons from the Civil War. The best joke in the box was finding a uniform button that I had lost on leave before going overseas. I have siblings who would take a more commercial view of what was in the box and they are very cut throat when it comes to that.

 

On the other side of the coin, however, is what happened one winter day when I was going through a box from my grandmothers house and found a package containing six years of letters my uncle had written to my grandparents during World War II. I sent them to my cousin, his son, who never knew the letters existed. A year later, I had forgotten that I had this soldier's complete set of dress uniforms and his medals. I sent them, too. Both packages arrived around Christmas time.

 

My uncle died about two decades after the war from frostbite-related injuries that he sustained during the Battle of the Bulge. He never met his grandchildren. My cousin was career Army so I know that those artifacts are being protected in the same way my cousin would keep his own things because it represents something very important to his family. The value to them is far more then one can measure. They actually spent one Christmas just reading the V-mail.

 

That's why you give them back.

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It's all fun and games until the family member has a lawyer call you to get the artifact back (20 plus years after buying the item)...I have some good stories about family members and one really bad cautionary tale about an artifact that's ongoing still! Unfortunately, I can't post the details, but I'll say calling the family member's contacts harassment would be an understatement in this case. Ed

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Patchcollector

because not all family members get a fair chance when estates are broken up for multiple reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

Good point

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  • 4 months later...
stratasfan

OK. I don't want to bump a thread, but I've been thinking about this for ages now. When I first started, I kind of felt a pang when I saw a named item and felt bad that the family couldn't have it. We've had some experience with non-military items and returning/selling to family members. Some successful, some not. I don't know if I am going to be able to say this correctly, but I'm going to try anyway! Where I stand right now . . . if you have a named item, I sure wouldn't feel at all bad about keeping it or selling it on. Actually, I think I would not even bother thinking about a family member. I would say that, if a family member wants the item (or any item from a family member), they can certainly spread the word online that they are looking for something and they could take the time to find the item for sale.

 

I think that 9 times out of 10, the item left the family for a reason. Of course . . . there are exceptions. Our own family has some exceptions even. I think we fall into the 1 out of 10. However, I think I stand at the complete side now. Of course, I'd be open if a family member politely came to me (if I had an item) and was fair about the whole thing. I think that today, in today's time and today's masses-at-large, it all comes down to money. I think people see military things and think in terms of the dollar marks they think they lost or are losing.

 

Well, I'll get off my soap box for now. Re-reading my post, I kind of sound cynical, and I guess I am at the moment. I always tell people I am an optimistic cynic. Truly, I am an extreme optimist. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, the older I get, and the more I have to deal with people, I am getting a bit of a cynical streak. I don't know how, but sometimes, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and nobody the benefit of the doubt, in certain situations. I don't know if others feel the same way, but this is sure something that I've been noticing lately.

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I haven't read this entire thread but, what about items that were given to you then years later some family member wants the item! I had this happen to me twice.

Ronnie

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thought I'd share this as this post has be revived.

A few weeks ago I was contacted through email about a particular uniform I own... the person claimed that the uniform belonged to their father and they were the man's only son and that they wanted it back as a memory... when I responded that I would not be giving them the uniform. they got very angry and claimed the uniform rightfully belonged to them.

you may remember this uniform from this post I made...
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/226391-my-secret-project-uniform-recreation/?hl=%2Bsecret+%2Bproject

You cant always trust people out there.

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stratasfan

"You can't always trust people out there." Absolutely right! Again . . . I think too many people are only interested in what they think is worth money. I think if you really were to find out their true feelings, it is just that they think they lost something that was valuable and has nothing to do with "sentiment". I think when it comes to a case like that, it would depend on how the family member acted when they contacted you. If they were nice about it and seemed fair, I'd have no trouble coming to a deal (I certainly would never "give" something. In today's world, too much is given for free to people who now expect everything to come for free. What happened to the good old idea that things mean something when you work for them?). If they were unreasonable or got angry . . . well, I would close down communication if I could and never feel bad about it at all! Of course, I know there will always be cases that don't fit in, but whatever happened . . . I would not feel bad about keeping a family item. As I said earlier . . . if it really means something to a family member (whether it is a son, grandson, cousin or triple-great niece or nephew), they would be nice about it and reasonable. If they come in and expect you to give it back or sell it at a low figure so you lose money . . . then it isn't being reacquired for sentiment. That's my take.

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I made a decision many long years ago as to what I collect which can be one of the most contentious...named medals and groups.My collection consists of nothing I generated but something overlooked and many times forgotten. Out in the non collecting world lurks myriads of siblings, aunts and uncles, plus millions of twelfth cousins looking for a medal they knew nothing about.I have been involved many times with families about this very thing, some instances, worked to both parties satisfaction and other instances did not.

You have to consider any of these type contacts on a singular basis,what is the catalyst for them to contact you...what is the true motivation.

A posthumous medal orginally went to the next of kin...from that point the medal goes to who they decide...so all the rest of the family is out of the line of possession. So, 70 years later,there are many folks who claim ownership, many times to something that knew nothing about...or even that it exsisted...until a Google search found it.

I have been praised by some families, then lauded as the worst morally deficit individual who drew a breath by others. So, if nothing else, you must grow thick skin, the collecting of named items carries a price...always noble...but many times misunderstood.

 

To be able to tell the stories and resurrect the names...Honor the Valor and Deeds of these Americans...it is all worth it.The good contacts far outweigh the bad.

I will add this...if contacted (sometimes it starts heated) always give yourself 24 hours before responding (if you do intend to respond) Many times in this quick Internet World we respond more aggressive...with more reflex...without thinking it over.A cool down or reflective period of time can help.

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stratasfan

I made a decision many long years ago as to what I collect which can be one of the most contentious...named medals and groups.My collection consists of nothing I generated but something overlooked and many times forgotten. Out in the non collecting world lurks myriads of siblings, aunts and uncles, plus millions of twelfth cousins looking for a medal they knew nothing about.I have been involved many times with families about this very thing, some instances, worked to both parties satisfaction and other instances did not.

You have to consider any of these type contacts on a singular basis,what is the catalyst for them to contact you...what is the true motivation.

A posthumous medal orginally went to the next of kin...from that point the medal goes to who they decide...so all the rest of the family is out of the line of possession. So, 70 years later,there are many folks who claim ownership, many times to something that knew nothing about...or even that it exsisted...until a Google search found it.

I have been praised by some families, then lauded as the worst morally deficit individual who drew a breath by others. So, if nothing else, you must grow thick skin, the collecting of named items carries a price...always noble...but many times misunderstood.

 

To be able to tell the stories and resurrect the names...Honor the Valor and Deeds of these Americans...it is all worth it.The good contacts far outweigh the bad.

I will add this...if contacted (sometimes it starts heated) always give yourself 24 hours before responding (if you do intend to respond) Many times in this quick Internet World we respond more aggressive...with more reflex...without thinking it over.A cool down or reflective period of time can help.

 

Very well put! Also, very good advice about not responding right away. The world of emails (fast typing, no faces) often allows people to say things they would not say to you personally, and to be rather rude. The digital world has many good points, but there are cons that come with it, too. Lack of manners being a common thing. So, very good advice!

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  • 6 years later...
On 11/28/2015 at 11:16 AM, Bob Hudson said:

 

That's an important one: can they prove it AND does the relationship matter? We've seen things where someone says something like, "That veteran was my great-great uncle and I want it back in the family!" By now someone from a few generations back could have a hundred or more nephews and neices, great-nephews and neices, etc. none of whom actually knew the vet and none of whom are direct descendants. Do any of them have a special entitlement to something from a non-lineal ancestor they never knew (and who may have died decades before they were born)?

 

One article about geneology noted, "experts say the odds are virtually 100 percent that every person on Earth is descended from one royal personage or another."

 

Does that mean we can all claim a share of whatever artifacts remain from ancient kings, after all we are family?

 

I think it's wise to narrow down the definition of family to something akin to the kinds of relations that might gather at the Thanksgiving table (and even then aunts, uncles and cousins are stretching it). I know I could never feel any special entitlement to something that belong to one of my uncles and if I ever did end up with something of theirs, the next generation likely would say "That belonged to some great uncle I never heard of - off to ebay it goes."

 

I think that when returning something you do have to consider what happens to it when subsequent generations get it: will they be the next family member to sell it (remember, someone from the family already gave away or sold the artifact)?

 

Collectors are better custodian of veteran's artifacts than most families and in considering whether to "return" something you should evaluate the artifact's long-term prospects in the family. Our job as collectors is to preverse the legacy of the veteran's service.

 

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I used to collect militaria directly from family and even the veteran or their wives. Most of the family just wanted the money. They knew very little about their father of husband war service. I had one wife tell me she wanted to sell her husband keepsakes. I asked her why and she said I wasn't married to him until after the war. 

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