A.E. F. ‘Trench’ & Overseas Caps

[Cote_1918]

On 9/8/2019 at 10:52 AM, world war I nerd said:

Glen, thanks for posting pics of your 1918 dated Winter Field Cap with buckled ear flaps.

 

I wonder if that was a late war specification that never made it overseas? I've seen dozens and dozens of period photos, taken both in the U.S. and overseas, of soldiers wearing Winter Field Caps, but not one of them utilized a buckle. The flaps were all secured by the more common cloth ties. Just because we haven't seen a buckled cap in period photos yes, doesn't mean that they were not worn, but if they were worn, there must not have been very many of them in circulation.

I've seen a few pics of guys in Russia with them on. I think its and extreme cold weather cap.

[TrenchRat]

Cote_1918,

 

Hey, thanks for your input...

Any chance you can get a copy of any image showing the buckled cap to post here??

[johnny12550]

What are the thoughts on this overseas cap. I’ve never seen one like this before

[cwnorma]

Emerson illustrates this design (in blue) worn by an Army Nurse (p581 figure 79-4).  This particular example (in khaki twill) is likely from a semi-official women's motor corps unit.  There were literally dozens of such organizations in cities around the country.  Despite Jill Smith's extra-ordinary study of World War One women's uniforms, most of these smaller, regional organizations remain poorly, or completely undocumented.

[johnny12550]

Thanks for the info. I just bought it and really took a gamble. I knew it was WW1 and probably Motor Corps or some type of Female military or volunteer service, but I really Had no idea.

[AustinO]

You took a gamble, I took a gamble too!  Pulled it out of a pile of about 200 os caps last week. Wasn't sure on the female piece so only called it out as a possibility in the listing.  Let me know if you're able to find and period shots of one in wear with that insignia. 

 

[johnny12550]

If I do find a period pic I will definitely post it. I had looked at all sorts or pics before and after purchasing it and still have not seen  someone wearing it.

[richbradley56]

Hello all -

     I'm glad this topic is still active & rich with information.  Many thanks!  I include here some images from my great-grandfather, Brig. Gen. F.M. Caldwell,  He commanded the 75th brigade, 38th division, which was broken up on arrival in France in October, 1918.  He was then assigned to the 83rd brigade, 42nd division, though he was attached to the 29th & 79th divisions during the latter stages of the Meuse-Argonne offensive (I assume with V corps & perhaps helping coordination of the passage of lines, as the 79th relieved the 29th).  He later commanded the 83rd brigade during the occupation of the Rhineland, returning Stateside in April, 1919.

     This cap is his, along with his 42nd div. patch & I.D. tag.  I believe purchased Before going overseas.  The photo certainly is, note the absence of a Sam Browne belt.  I have never seen a general officer photo in France showing a cap with 3/8" gold trim, all I've seen seem to be with rather narrower gold soutache.  Enjoy.

    

[Guest David Zimmerman]

My grandfather's hat with Quartermaster insignia and putees.

 

[July1, 1916-HLI17SB]

Hello.  I recently purchased this Belgian service cap.  Inside, it has the name of a member of the 33rd US Ambulance Company ….a unit that arrived in France during the first week of June, 1918.  I did find this man as a WW1 veteran in MA burial records and the hat came from MA.  At first, I thought  the cap might be a souvenir.  However….

1) I find no combination of red piping and white tassels in the Belgian army during WWI

2) it is a private purchase hat and the tassel is attached unlike the standard Belgian practice.  

3) The tassel is not a style of any standard period production. It appears locally hand made.  
4) The American soldier has written his name and unit under the sweat band twice… once in English, once in French.  Probably not necessary for a souvenir that gets stuffed in your kit. 

5) Red would be the closest Belgian piping to the US Medical Corps maroon/scarlet of the period.

 

You probably know where I am going with this.  I am inclined to believe that the American soldier purchased this cap, had a white tassel made to complete his arm of service colors, and wore it for at least a while until his unit received the more common style(s) of cap worn by the AEF.  Thoughts? 

[atb]

I tend to agree with your theory. Was he an officer? If not, it's interesting that he decided to go with officer's branch-colored piping in lieu of attaching a medical disk to the cap. Is there any evidence of officer's rank insignia, or an enlisted disc having been attached?

[July1, 1916-HLI17SB]

He was enlisted personnel, and I find no indication of any insignia (pin or post attachment) being added.  

[teufelhund]

On 1/22/2024 at 5:37 PM, July1, 1916-HLI17SB said:

Hello.  I recently purchased this Belgian service cap.  Inside, it has the name of a member of the 33rd US Ambulance Company ….a unit that arrived in France during the first week of June, 1918.  I did find this man as a WW1 veteran in MA burial records and the hat came from MA.  At first, I thought  the cap might be a souvenir.  However….

1) I find no combination of red piping and white tassels in the Belgian army during WWI

2) it is a private purchase hat and the tassel is attached unlike the standard Belgian practice.  

3) The tassel is not a style of any standard period production. It appears locally hand made.  
4) The American soldier has written his name and unit under the sweat band twice… once in English, once in French.  Probably not necessary for a souvenir that gets stuffed in your kit. 

5) Red would be the closest Belgian piping to the US Medical Corps maroon/scarlet of the period.

 

You probably know where I am going with this.  I am inclined to believe that the American soldier purchased this cap, had a white tassel made to complete his arm of service colors, and wore it for at least a while until his unit received the more common style(s) of cap worn by the AEF.  Thoughts? 

Hello, 

Here are some informations about the  WW1 belgian "bonnet de police".

Your example is of the ealy style, circa 1900-1916  before the implementation of the OD uniform regulation.

The tassels seems too long to me  be ( looks like having been  borrowed to a curtain) but I am not en expert of belgian uniforms & equipment.

Anyway, according this book &  to the autor who is THE reference on the subject, it seems that a lot of non regulation or  fancy uniform where the common rule at the time.  

[L11-VELASCO]

Meanwhile Im in touch now with AEF caps and I purchased my first example I found this GREAT thread and although Sorry I started a thread(before seen this here) about my first one garrison cap  I would like to post here the pics requesting info about the labels, what are them,if is a maker one,s ....

Have you ever seen this Fine& Levy one???

About the label with red colour around what should be for???

The device USNA I read here on Page 4 of  this thread that is one from earlier ones examples??

 

Thanks in advance 

[everforward]

Cap from a grouping I have that was worn by PFC Jacob Biller, F Company 116th US Infantry, 29th Division AEF..Nice gabardine material, leather sweat band sewn in place…no size or tag. PFC Biller lived in Rockingham County, Virginia and was part of the original National Guard cadre.

[atb]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:09 PM, David Zimmerman said:

 

My grandfather's hat with Quartermaster insignia and putees.

 

That is an Army Service Corps disk on the cap, not a Quartermaster Corps insignia 

[repbrock]

AEF Nerd. Are you attending SOS this year?  

[Julien]

Hello! 
I have an old picture from who I think is an ancestor of mine from ~1918. Would love any expert eyes to help me identify anything about the grade and unit of the man on the left.

 

The picture was taken in Calais, Nord, France around 1918 (The person on the right is my great great great aunt)

Here is what I could find: 

- the uniform looks like a Belgian army jacket (4 pockets, the two bottom ones being sewn outward) - which is plausible then. The ancestor I'm suspecting the man is was a teacher, enrolled in the Belgian army at that time in residence in Calais

- the gloves he is holding are typical of officers

 

What I don't know / I'm not sure about:

- the Belgian army jacket was mid-brown, while it looks more while / light beige in the picture

- the rank (likely displayed on his sleeves) would correspond to Lieutenenant in the French army, but the Belgian Army seems to use Stars, not bands for this rank

- his trench cap is what brought me here: I didn't find this common in the Belgian Army in WW1

- the man's collar has the number 1 on it, and possibly what looks like another token of his rank

 

What is your interpretation? 

 

 

[atb]

I just now picked up this cap. Really nice condition with evidence of a disk having been attached. The markings on the sweatband have me puzzled. I've attached an image. To me it looks like-

"USG M[ADE?]

106

INSPECTED"

all enclosed in a box. Maybe it means US Government Made? There's also a size,"7' on the sweatband.

 

 

 

[aznation]

8 minutes ago, atb said:

I just now picked up this cap. Really nice condition with evidence of a disk having been attached. The markings on the sweatband have me puzzled. I've attached an image. To me it looks like-

"USG M[ADE?]

106

INSPECTED"

all enclosed in a box. Maybe it means US Government Made? There's also a size,"7' on the sweatband.

 

 

 

That's U.S.Q.M. for United States Quartermaster.

 

[atb]

31 minutes ago, aznation said:

That's U.S.Q.M. for United States Quartermaster.

 

Very, very possible. As I keep staring at it for way too long, it looks like a G and not a Q, and there are more letters after the M . The box seems wider, too. I'll keep staring.. Perhaps a D after the M for USQMD. D for Department. I think I'll go with that for now.

[aznation]

1 hour ago, atb said:

Very, very possible. As I keep staring at it for way too long, it looks like a G and not a Q, and there are more letters after the M . The box seems wider, too. I'll keep staring.. Perhaps a D after the M for USQMD. D for Department. I think I'll go with that for now.

Maybe my eyes are getting worse than I thought.  I didn't even see any other letters about the M but I think you might be right perhaps about the D.  Maybe the D is for Depot.  Just a thought.  I'm pretty sure someone on the forum will let us know what we're actually looking at.

[CAC1901]

It should be US Quartermaster Corps - initials USQMC.  The USQM Department became the corps in 1912. The former USQMD initials lingered on with a few items though. 

[atb]

3 hours ago, CAC1901 said:

It should be US Quartermaster Corps - initials USQMC.  The USQM Department became the corps in 1912. The former USQMD initials lingered on with a few items though. 

That makes the most sense. I'll let my eyes rest and take another look later. To me it seems an unusual marking in a cap.