101st AB Vietnam Vet

[bellasilva]

Yesterday while at work doing a vehicle inspection I looked up when I heard a banging noise coming from a vehicle that was in reverse. I immediately noticed the veteran license plate and a Vietnam/101st AB sticker on the driver's side door.

 

He pulled up and rolled his window down to ask what we thought the noise was coming from his vehicle (determined it was a ball joint issue). I then brought up his decal and he immediately lit up and got out of the car (taking up a travel lane and causing a back up, although I didn't care) He went on to talk briefly about his service in Vietnam. He was a very short, thin African American man and all I could imagine was him as a young teenager when he spoke about how frightened he was every time he took point on a patrol. He also recalled calling in mortar and artillery fire on their own positions when they were being overrun by Charlie and looking for an escape. He laughed out loud when I told him how other Vietnam vets I've spoken to told me that while under enemy fire, they could utilize the smallest hole imaginable for cover, and said he could definitely relate. He also told me that if he could do it all over again, he would.

 

I've had the amazing opportunity in the past several months at work to have conversations with some really incredible vets..the PTO Navy vet, the Vietnam combat engineer vet, the 99 year old purple heart recipient Hurtgen Forest vet, another 100 year old ETO vet. That one in particular, whenever he mentions that he was under Patton, the Korean War Navy vet would ask him "Well how much did he weigh?".

 

Sorry for being long winded but I'm constantly reminded of why we do what we do, collect what we collect, and honor who we honor when I meet these guys..all in their 60's and above. They wore these things we sometimes squabble over, they used them in garrison, they used them in training, and they used them while slogging through the mud, the snow and rain, the unbearably humid jungles, witnessing horrors that would make many of us run for mama. I sure hope all of us who are in this field don't ever lose sight of the bigger picture. We wouldn't be critiquing the rust spot on the paint of a helmet had these guys not stepped up and did an incredible thing. The most satisfying thing I can think of is telling a joke to this Vietnam vet and seeing him light up and laugh and see the 18 year old kid he once was, trudging on for another patrol many thousands of miles away from home.

[SFMike]

What baffles me is the number of military "enthusiasts" who never did 5 seconds service of their own-like some kind of vampires living off other peoples' lives and experiences.

 

I was surrounded by WW2 and WW1 ves growing up-my dad was 506th PIR in WW2.

I could not wait for my own opportunity to do my own time, war or not.

I still consider it an essential right of passage and affirmation of worth.

[RustyCanteen]

What baffles me is the number of military "enthusiasts" who never did 5 seconds service of their own-like some kind of vampires living off other peoples' lives and experiences.

 

 

Um, what exactly does this have to do with Bellasilva's post? He was just sharing some experiences with generations that are dying off at an all too quick rate.

 

And with all due respect, I feel I must comment that I think you used an awfully broad brush when you painted the picture of collectors as "vampires". I do not think collectors live vicariously through the lives of others, but instead many of them collect because a dad, uncle, grand-dad, brother, neighbor, friend served.

 

You have a right to your opinion, but let's not be too hasty in labeling collectors as 'vampires'.

 

RC

[bellasilva]

What baffles me is the number of military "enthusiasts" who never did 5 seconds service of their own-like some kind of vampires living off other peoples' lives and experiences.

 

I was surrounded by WW2 and WW1 ves growing up-my dad was 506th PIR in WW2.

I could not wait for my own opportunity to do my own time, war or not.

I still consider it an essential right of passage and affirmation of worth.

I agree with RC and don't really see where your response originated, but I'll address it anyway.

 

Not all of us served, not all of us had the opportunity to serve (medical conditions, etc.) And heck not not even all of us WANTED to serve. Those who didn't should be thankful that it's not mandatory, in this all-volunteer military we now have.

 

For those who haven't served, they have every right to be enthusiastic in their field of collecting, and again, I hope that we strive to see the bigger picture in the fact that we might not even be here today collecting and displaying and talking about this "stuff" if not for the sacrifices these men and women made. I believe the highest honor can one earn is to serve this country, but that's not to say that those who haven't served are not doing an honorable thing by preserving these pieces of history that these men and women wore so long ago. I was told by the daughter of a Hurtgen Forest vet who to this day still has German artillery shrapnel in his shoulder, that I was doing an incredible thing by honoring these veterans. To me, that was all the satisfaction and assurance I needed to keep going .

[pbuchh7715]

What baffles me is the number of military "enthusiasts" who never did 5 seconds service of their own-like some kind of vampires living off other peoples' lives and experiences.

 

I was surrounded by WW2 and WW1 ves growing up-my dad was 506th PIR in WW2.

I could not wait for my own opportunity to do my own time, war or not.

I still consider it an essential right of passage and affirmation of worth.

 

So, anyone who has not served has no sense of self-worth? Perhaps many of those who did not serve, could not..even if they wanted. I think anyone's fascination with the history, heritage, exploits and experiences of those who DID serve is a healty way to preserve the past and honor even the most mundane exploits performed while in uniform.

 

I believe many here were also surrounded by various service members throughout their life; so your veiled insuation that you might understand better than others because you were "surrounded" by Veterans and your "dad was in the 506th PIR" is really kind of sad. And fairly insulting considering the cast that are members of this forum.

 

What's worse than a "vampire" is a pontificating boor and self-proclaimed expert who may have served, but doesn't appreciate those who honor their service and that of others.

 

Enjoy your hobby,

 

Peter

[Jeeper704]

What baffles me is the number of military "enthusiasts" who never did 5 seconds service of their own-like some kind of vampires living off other peoples' lives and experiences.

 

I was surrounded by WW2 and WW1 ves growing up-my dad was 506th PIR in WW2.

I could not wait for my own opportunity to do my own time, war or not.

I still consider it an essential right of passage and affirmation of worth.

 

Got out the wrong side of your bed that morning?

 

Erwin (Belgian vampire, working for the DoD)

[ScottG]

I really like the way Bellasilva described his meeting with the vet. I think its a great thing to be able to look into the eyes of one of these vets and see the younger version doing their job or carrying out their mission.

With that said, I also respect SF Mike's statement, as there is a level of understanding and brotherhood known only to those who served. While I would never begrudge anyone's right to collect what they love, or try to understand more fully, the context in which many of those items were used, I do think SFMike is making a valid point. There are those that do try to live vicariously through their association with veterans or their items. Watch just about any modern documentary and you will see resident experts travelling to battlefields "accompanying" the vets. Perhaps they are conducting legitimate research, but more often than not, they have already done the research and published their book, now they are tagging along as a subject matter expert that has no first hand experience...So, maybe that does make them a "vampire" of sorts? It shouldn't lessen their ability to collect or enjoy the hobby, but I do think that SFMike has a valid point. I say this as I enjoy seeing many of these documentaries, but I ask myself, do I need the next Stephen Ambrose to show me the places I served? The answer I come up with is always no. So, do the D-Day vets need accompaniment by collector/authors? Are these guys legitimate historians? Again the answer is generally no, they could find their way on their own and again, generally no, most of these authors are not school trained historians. It doesn't mean they are not really good subject matter experts, but they are not historians in the professional sense. So again, maybe there is validity in the "vampire" statement?

In attending shows throughout the years I have noticed a number of collectors and dealers that can barely hand a helmet or piece of gear across a table without getting winded (not from age either), or that need things like segways to get around quicker... I wonder at times why they are in the field of military collecting at all? There seems to be no connection but I do accept that perhaps they just love it, or are paying tribute to a family member. Whatever their reason is o.k. by me. With that said, I sympathize with SFMike as he has "walked the walk" and those who have not will never understand what that is like. No amount of book reading, collecting, or movie watching can replace that first hand knowledge and understanding.

So, tear me apart, call me names, do whatever, I am prepared. But remember, I am not questioning your appreciation of ones service, nor your right to collect, I am just saying that SFMike has a right to his collecting opinion as do you, and that I do see some validity in what he was saying. Scott.

[squirrely]

I have no idea what caused the second poster to respond like that to the first.

 

For whatever the reason though...I wish a thread like this could go more than a full page without airy and meaningless words such as 'honor' being plastered all over it. The majority of people 'honor' vets for service without even considering what the word means. We're fellow human beings, most of whom are here because we had a spark of belief in the United States, or needed our country just as much as she needed us. Whatever the reason, most modern vets found ourselves set far, far apart from the civilian world after only a few brief years.

 

Why do some people get testy over collectors who have never served? Because 'honor' can mean multiple things including; "to highly respect", "to worship", and "to confer honor or distinction on" - something that collectors don't typically specify, or really see the implied meaning behind "honoring". Yes, I'm analyzing...I guess I'm just worn out of so many people blindly thanking us while at the same time saying we need to do something about IS, or the Taliban, or Paris...or whatever else there is. If you won't or can't serve, the least you can do is buy a drink and ask why we're drinking in the first place.

[Too Much WW1 Militaria]

I really like the way Bellasilva described his meeting with the vet. I think its a great thing to be able to look into the eyes of one of these vets and see the younger version doing their job or carrying out their mission.

With that said, I also respect SF Mike's statement, as there is a level of understanding and brotherhood known only to those who served. While I would never begrudge anyone's right to collect what they love, or try to understand more fully, the context in which many of those items were used, I do think SFMike is making a valid point. There are those that do try to live vicariously through their association with veterans or their items. Watch just about any modern documentary and you will see resident experts travelling to battlefields "accompanying" the vets. Perhaps they are conducting legitimate research, but more often than not, they have already done the research and published their book, now they are tagging along as a subject matter expert that has no first hand experience...So, maybe that does make them a "vampire" of sorts? It shouldn't lessen their ability to collect or enjoy the hobby, but I do think that SFMike has a valid point. I say this as I enjoy seeing many of these documentaries, but I ask myself, do I need the next Stephen Ambrose to show me the places I served? The answer I come up with is always no. So, do the D-Day vets need accompaniment by collector/authors? Are these guys legitimate historians? Again the answer is generally no, they could find their way on their own and again, generally no, most of these authors are not school trained historians. It doesn't mean they are not really good subject matter experts, but they are not historians in the professional sense. So again, maybe there is validity in the "vampire" statement?

In attending shows throughout the years I have noticed a number of collectors and dealers that can barely hand a helmet or piece of gear across a table without getting winded (not from age either), or that need things like segways to get around quicker... I wonder at times why they are in the field of military collecting at all? There seems to be no connection but I do accept that perhaps they just love it, or are paying tribute to a family member. Whatever their reason is o.k. by me. With that said, I sympathize with SFMike as he has "walked the walk" and those who have not will never understand what that is like. No amount of book reading, collecting, or movie watching can replace that first hand knowledge and understanding.

So, tear me apart, call me names, do whatever, I am prepared. But remember, I am not questioning your appreciation of ones service, nor your right to collect, I am just saying that SFMike has a right to his collecting opinion as do you, and that I do see some validity in what he was saying. Scott.

This post makes some excellent points. I did serve for 30 years, with two tours in Vietnam thrown in, first as a 11B, the second as a 68W. We collectors sometimes do get wrapped around the axle over what amounts to people's stuff. I'll confess to having a 20 year "WW1 bender" where I had to collect everything US WW1. This was something that I did with my grandfather, a WW1 Doctor, who served two years in France. And, honor means a lot of different things to different folks. The term that bugs me to no end is hero. Not everyone who ever wore a uniform was/is a hero, to me anyway, a hero is under a white cross or a Star of David. They gave their futures for you and I. To me anyway, that is a hero. When I retired, I threw my medals, etc. in a plastic tub. They are stored along with WW1 items I don't have room to display. While I'm proud of my service, I'm even prouder of some of the soldiers I served with and/or supervised who have gone on to lead decent, productive lives. And, to me a lot of heroes never served a day in uniform. But, they've stood up and been good brothers/sisters, husband's/wife's, father's and mothers. To me that's another kind of hero. I knew a CMOH receiptient who was extremely brave on the battlefield. In general life, he was a 180lb bag of dirt.

 

So, this vet, doesn't pass judgement on anyone, (not my place, I'm not the creator and far from perfect). I think the take away is respect, research, enjoy. And, you helmet guys still pay too much for the darn things! LOL

 

My .02

 

John