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PARTY LIKE ITS 1899!-INDIANA SPAN-AM FINDS


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Really great finds! I like how you have a photo of Barr wearing the gloves you own, don't see stuff like that to often. What was the average number of soldiers per company during this time? As you mentioned there was only one Lt. per company.

Thanks David D. Although I would like to clear up on point, each company had more than one Lieutenant, however unlike a modern infantry company, there was only 1 First Lieutenant and 1 Second Lieutenant. Today we consider these terms to be just a rank, whereas an infantry company could have 3 or 4 First Lieutenants. At the time of the Spanish-American War, you could only have one First Lieutenant as he was the ranking lieutenant in the company.

 

During the Span-Am, an Infantry company mobilized from the Indiana National Guard had approximately 100 enlisted men and three officers. The enlisted men consisted of members of the guard companies that were called to Federal duty and recruits. At least with the Indiana Volunteer Infantry, the recruits were men who volunteered from the same area in which the regiment was raised, but joined after the guard companies had been mustered.

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Most collectors tend to apply modern methods to the way things used to be in the military. Many collectors don't realize for example that when militias and National Guard companies were formed, that they were formed by geographical constraints, and that the company leaders were normally elected (though sometimes the leaders received appointments from the governor etc.) to their positions rather than earned promotion through the ranks. President Harry S. Truman had hoped that his fellow volunteers in the field artillery unit would elect him as the comapny first sergeant. They surprised him by electing him as a lieutenant!

 

It didn't really matter what a person's civilian occupation was- units were mustered to fill needs of the regiment. In many cases, the difference between becoming a field artilleryman, cavlary trooper or infantryman were based solely on where the unit was mustered from. In LT Linvill's case, it didn't matter that he was a surgeon, the company in his town was an infantry unit.

 

Great items and great information here!

Allan

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Most collectors tend to apply modern methods to the way things used to be in the military. Many collectors don't realize for example that when militias and National Guard companies were formed, that they were formed by geographical constraints, and that the company leaders were normally elected (though sometimes the leaders received appointments from the governor etc.) to their positions rather than earned promotion through the ranks. President Harry S. Truman had hoped that his fellow volunteers in the field artillery unit would elect him as the comapny first sergeant. They surprised him by electing him as a lieutenant!

 

It didn't really matter what a person's civilian occupation was- units were mustered to fill needs of the regiment. In many cases, the difference between becoming a field artilleryman, cavlary trooper or infantryman were based solely on where the unit was mustered from. In LT Linvill's case, it didn't matter that he was a surgeon, the company in his town was an infantry unit.

 

Great items and great information here!

Allan

 

Allan, Thanks for the kind words!

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Thanks for clearing it up for me, Beast.

My pleasure David D., I'm glad you asked the question as others are sure to have wondered the same thing.

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  • 7 months later...

I thought I would post two examples of the 1895 Forage Cap. One is the officer's version and the other the enlisted, and both are marked for the Indiana National Guard.

 

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  • 9 months later...
  • 3 months later...
Skysoldier80

Here's a new addition to start the year out right: Edward Neil, Company M, 157th Indiana Volunteer Infantry.

 

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Great find. I know a gentleman in Iowa, who makes great finds like this all of the time.. Lesson, there is still stuff out there.

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  • 4 weeks later...

So I found a piece that I didn't even know that I was looking for! Thanks to Robb Kay at the Colonel's Cache, I was able to obtain this Indiana National Guard Artillery officer's fatigue blouse. It is the 1876 pattern but most likely dates from the 1890s as it does not have any trim and it has three buttons on the cuff. I have seen several of the undress coats worn by Indiana National Guard officers, but i cannot remember ever seeing the fatigue blouse.

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  • 7 months later...
New Year's Eve 1898
A receipt from a Cuban ice house for 600 pounds of ice sold to the Quartermaster of the 161st Indiana Volunteer Infantry Regiment while at Camp Columbia, Cuba. On New Year's Day, the Regiment would march into Havana, celebrating the end of Spanish rule.
From the History of the 161st Indiana Volunteer Infantry: "As the time drew nearer to the noon hour the excitement among the people increased until they were running about the streets crying, shouting, laughing and singing. Dozens of bombs, exploding high in the air, added to the noise and confusion. There was an intense feeling. The hour they had longed prayed for and fought for was almost at hand. They knew that at that same minute, the hated Spanish were leaving the governor-general's palace and that the Spanish guards were being relieved for all time in the Morro. Their fair land. "Queen of the Antilles," was about to be taken from the hand of the oppressor."

 

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  • 9 months later...

A little teaser showing a new addition. Model 1872 Light Artillery Sword worn by Captain John C. Scantling, 2nd U.S. Artillery. Scantling served as an enlisted man during the Civil War and received his Federal Commission after the war.  I am still researching his service and will post more details soon.

 

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  • 3 months later...

So 2021 started off well.  I picked up this Officer's Model of 1898 wool field service blouse identified to Captain William F. Ranke who commanded the 28th Battery of Light Artillery , Indiana Volunteers, during the Spanish-American War.  The 28th Battery was formed from Battery E, 1st Artillery, Indiana National Guard.  After mustering in at Camp Mount, in Indianapolis, Indiana, it was sent to Camp Thomas at Chickamauga Park, Georgia.  After almost four months at Camp Thomas, the 28th was ordered back to Camp Mount were the men were mustered out.

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  • 1 month later...

We have a neighbor who cleans out abandoned storage lockers and tries to sell the contents.  She often comes up with bags full of junk jewelry that she gives my wife to use for crafts or to give to our granddaughter to play with.  

 

Last week she gave us a bag of junk jewelry and my wife found this.  She asked me what it was and I didn't know so I posted it up here.  Turns out it's a Spanish-American war era cap badge from the New York National Guard.  

 

Does anyone know where I can find the history of this unit, 4th Company, NYNG?  

 

 

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On 3/23/2021 at 11:55 AM, Martinjmpr said:

We have a neighbor who cleans out abandoned storage lockers and tries to sell the contents.  She often comes up with bags full of junk jewelry that she gives my wife to use for crafts or to give to our granddaughter to play with.  

 

Last week she gave us a bag of junk jewelry and my wife found this.  She asked me what it was and I didn't know so I posted it up here.  Turns out it's a Spanish-American war era cap badge from the New York National Guard.  

 

Does anyone know where I can find the history of this unit, 4th Company, NYNG?  

 

 

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Martinjmpr, I asked Bill Emerson and he confirmed that it is a hat insignia from the NYNG, circa 1880.   However, I don’t think it is from the 4th Company as it has the “A” for the company designation. After looking on-line, I’m surprised that there isn’t more information on the insignia of the NY National Guard.  Maybe this is for the Fourth Infantry Regiment, First Brigade, Company A?

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mars&thunder

Please be assured - it is 4th Separate Company, NYNG located in Yonkers NY. That is the 4 in the center. It was designated Co A, 1st Regiment NYNG in 1899 and held that designation through 1905. This insignia is from that timeframe, not the 1880's. I am replying again because I want to set the record straight for future reference purposes, so that collectors will be able to properly identify and date it. This is a rock solid identification in every regard.

 

You are correct in noting that there is limited online info about the insignia of the NYNG. I am attaching a photo of a NYNG soldier wearing this style of insignia. You can see the cap badge has a central circular medallion and although you can't quite make it out in the scanned version, in the original under a magnifying glass it clearly has a 36 in it.  He is from the 36th Separate Company in Schenectady, which was redesignated Company E of the 2nd Regt NYNG in 1899. Note that he also is wearing his Separate Company designation on the collar of his uniform, which indicates how hard these units held onto their historical designation, with full support of the state.  Details of the uniform and the NY Marksmanship medal that he is wearing indicate this photo was taken in about 1900. I have several other photos of NYNG soldiers that are members of other Separate Companies in this exact uniform configuration wearing this same style of cap badge, all from the 1900 period. They aren't as close-up so I chose to show you this example. 

 

If you really want to quote chapter and verse, you can go to the NYS Military Museum website and under research resources select adjutant general reports. Then read the reports for 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, etc looking specifically for the NY state general order that prescribes this uniform/insignia for enlisted personnel. The reports aren't searchable so you'll have to page through them laboriously (these are many hundreds of pages each) until you find the appendix where they've hidden the general orders and circulars, then read each one in the appendix (they're really boring) until you find the ones that talk about uniform changes. It won't be a fast or enjoyable process.

 

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20 hours ago, mars&thunder said:

Please be assured - it is 4th Separate Company, NYNG located in Yonkers NY. That is the 4 in the center. It was designated Co A, 1st Regiment NYNG in 1899 and held that designation through 1905. This insignia is from that timeframe, not the 1880's. I am replying again because I want to set the record straight for future reference purposes, so that collectors will be able to properly identify and date it. This is a rock solid identification in every regard.

 

You are correct in noting that there is limited online info about the insignia of the NYNG. I am attaching a photo of a NYNG soldier wearing this style of insignia. You can see the cap badge has a central circular medallion and although you can't quite make it out in the scanned version, in the original under a magnifying glass it clearly has a 36 in it.  He is from the 36th Separate Company in Schenectady, which was redesignated Company E of the 2nd Regt NYNG in 1899. Note that he also is wearing his Separate Company designation on the collar of his uniform, which indicates how hard these units held onto their historical designation, with full support of the state.  Details of the uniform and the NY Marksmanship medal that he is wearing indicate this photo was taken in about 1900. I have several other photos of NYNG soldiers that are members of other Separate Companies in this exact uniform configuration wearing this same style of cap badge, all from the 1900 period. They aren't as close-up so I chose to show you this example. 

 

If you really want to quote chapter and verse, you can go to the NYS Military Museum website and under research resources select adjutant general reports. Then read the reports for 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, etc looking specifically for the NY state general order that prescribes this uniform/insignia for enlisted personnel. The reports aren't searchable so you'll have to page through them laboriously (these are many hundreds of pages each) until you find the appendix where they've hidden the general orders and circulars, then read each one in the appendix (they're really boring) until you find the ones that talk about uniform changes. It won't be a fast or enjoyable process.

 

NYNGCapBadge.jpeg.7c91f1d937f6223291c1e410378afa9c.jpeg

 

 

Thanks Mars & Thunder for the clarification! New York has had such a prominent National Guard that I am surprised there aren't volumes on their uniforms and equipment. I have seen similar photos of the NYNG with the separate company numerals on the collar and always wondered their purpose.  Were these separate companies officially part of the NYNG?   During this period, Indiana had militia companies that were officially accepted into the Indiana Legion (National Guard) and other armed and uniformed companies that were not officially accepted as part of state's militia forces. 

 

 

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mars&thunder

Beast - The Separate Companies were officially part of the NYNG. They were located in places that were too small to support a regiment. NY also had unofficial military/drill organizations that were not part of the guard and were typically social organizations in tenor. The avowed intent of the NYNG was to have a unit in every county, but that was not realized. After the Spanish American War the NYNG decided to group the Separate Companies into regiments and assign them typical regimental designations. The new regiments were the First and Second Regiments. Later the Third was added. These are the units that used the dual regimental/separate company cap brass discussed in this post because the history of some of these units went back before the Civil War and the people in the units fought to maintain that linkage (in official terms, the old designation when coupled with the new designation is called the parenthetical designation). It took WWII to finally crush this history, as the Guard was so completely reorganized that any semblance of continuity was destroyed. Units today still claim descent from these small local units but most are unrecognizable in terms of mission or branch or recognition of that linkage. In NYNG contracts quoted in the Adjutant Generals Reports starting around 1900 this type of cap badge was called the Separate Company cap badge as opposed to the standard cap badge used by other units (whose price was quoted based on the quantity of numbers and letters, ie Infantry brass for Company A of the 7th regiment cost more than the Infantry brass of Company A of the 23rd Regiment (16 cents vs 18 cents) because it had one more character/number). The Separate Company Brass cost 17 cents each and were manufactured by Ridabock and Company (who was making all the NYNG headgear and brass insignia in this period).

 

I'm not a uniform or insignia guy - I collect NYNG medals and period photographs but have some insignia examples in my collection that come typically as part of a group. I know a few things about the uniforms and insignia because I tend to do a lot of research and have a vague understanding of what was going on and I can always use that to go back and check on things (like the price of cap badges which I did just for this post).

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  • 2 weeks later...
mars&thunder

Couldn't resist a final comment on NYNG Separate Companies. I am attaching an image of a coin/medal for sale on ebay. It celebrates the 100 year anniversary of the town of Hoosick Fall's local national guard unit. This was issued in 1989, yet the thing commemorated is the Separate Company designation, not the mélange of later NYNG designations the town unit was assigned. It shows the persistence of these initial designations in local memory. Hoosick Falls raised the 32nd Separate Company. The obverse also makes reference to CCHF - the Citizens Corps of Hoosick Falls. When a unit wanted to apply for membership in the NY National Guard prior to WW1, it had to demonstrate that there was enough local interest to sustain the unit. This was typically done by forming a volunteer quasi-military unit, recruiting it to strength for several years, privately purchasing military style uniforms, having drill meetings and participating in parades. Once this level of interest could be demonstrated, the unit would apply to the NYNG to be accepted as a formal military organization. It was the style in the 1870;s and 1880's in NY for these units to call themselves Citizens Corps, a title one often runs into researching NYNG military history in the late 19th century. 

 

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  • 7 months later...

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