True Paratrooper Wings With True Attachments?

[mtnman]

I am learning the ropes of Paratrooper wings ...Are these OK? How do you know good attachments, I tried researching the forum but could not really get a solid understanding of the attachments (Stars/Arrowhead), how to ascertain good or repro??

[tarbridge]

I have never really noticed a lot of consistency in attachments on Para or Glider wings.I'm sure many were done by the Veterans themselves. I will say...the ones you have pictured I like a lot.Especially with the holes drilled as neatly as they were.

[mtnman]

Thanks TB!

[tarbridge]

This just came to mind, BB&B wings normally mounted the attachments with rivet type pin.

[Tonomachi]

You just never know with these types of wings as to when the arrow head and stars were added. There is a way sometimes to determine (guess) if the arrow head and stars have been added recently if you have it in hand. However I'm reluctant to say anything as this will just give those folks that are making these types of wings a way to circumvent this method of examination if that makes any sense.

[doyler]

I think its intresting how there were two holes drilled for the attacments.Nice variation.

 

I agree with Robert and I like these but its a minefield as stated.

 

I have a few sets from one officer.He was both a Normandy and Holland vet.One set of his wings has two stars that are the large english style stars.None of his wings had the arrow head.Probably just a personal choice.

 

Even the set he kept was unique.They were english made with two english jump stars and mounted on two pieces of leather that formed the units oval.One of the coolest set of wings I have ever had in hand.

 

Thanks for posting.

[Sabrejet]

Same applies to appurtenances on medal ribbons. It can be difficult to ascertain if they are actually period...or later add-ons.

 

A friend of mine wanted a "Normandy" jumpwing for a uniform so he took an original WW2 jumpwing plus a bronze arrowhead and a couple of campaign stars to a local jeweller. The jeweller drilled out the wing with a pin-vice and attached the appurtenances. Almost impossible to differentiate between that and an original at a glance.

[BROBS]

I like the devices and attachment method. However 4 stars seems a lot on a wing you usually see less.

 

I usually look for signs of age of the attachment like dust/patina under them, wear to the mounting holes, etc etc.

 

I like everything but this on yours from what I can tell. And as others have said it's often an 'in hand' type thing. I would check the mounting holes for patina with a loupe and be looking for dust under the devices.

 

If there is none of this they may have been attached more recently than ww2. However who is to say someone didn't drop then in jewelry cleaner?

 

But at best you just have to 'feel' them 'in hand'.

[BROBS]

I like the devices and attachment method. However 4 stars seems a lot on a wing you usually see less.

 

I usually look for signs of age of the attachment like dust/patina under them, wear to the mounting holes, etc etc.

 

I like everything but this on yours from what I can tell. And as others have said it's often an 'in hand' type thing. I would check the mounting holes for patina with a loupe and be looking for dust under the devices.

 

If there is none of this they may have been attached more recently than ww2. However who is to say someone didn't drop then in jewelry cleaner?

 

But at best you just have to 'feel' them 'in hand'.

[tomcatter]

I like the devices and attachment method. However 4 stars seems a lot on a wing you usually see less.

 

Maybe it's a Paratrooper who fought both WWII and KW?

[doyler]

I recall there are 504th wings with several stars from WW2

[BROBS]

not saying it's not possible by any means just that the ones I have encountered usually have less.

It's just something that would make me look harder at this example.

 

I'm not seeing any huge red flags from the pics at all... the devices certainly fit the period as does the wing.

[mtnman]

Awesome responses guys. THANK YOU for the Wisdom and the time you took to respond. JUST GREAT INFORMATION! This is what the forum is about!

[Kadet]

..actually the 505th PIR rated 4 stars (Sicily, Salerno, Normandy and Holland). The 504th missed Normandy, and only rated 3 stars...

[pfrost]

I'm skeptical of a wing with this many add-ons. An invasion arrowhead and 4 additional jumps is a lot of action! These all look to have been added the same time, which would argue against a WWII/KW. Its not that it isn't possible, its just that this seems to good to be true. If I found this in a jewelry box at a flea market for 10$, then I would say, "sure, why not?". If this was an expensive item being peddled at a militaria show.... I would say "prove it to me!"

 

One thing that I don't like at all is that every single star has the long wires just simply bent over. It looks to me that after taking all the time to carefully drill all the little holes, they simply grabbed 4 stars and an arrowhead, threaded them on, bent over the wires, and called it a day. It looks sloppy. The wires are all straight and neat and don't look to have caught on anything and have any wear that would have been indicative of being taken off and put back on a uniform. You would think that with the wires all pointed in different directions, one or two would have caught the underlying fabric and been wrenched out of perfect lines.

 

It isn't that it isn't possible, but....

 

Just my 2 cents.

P

[Kadet]

I must admit that I'm not feeling the love on these wings either. I've never seen this two hole style of attachment before. These were made at the unit level though, so who knows. I would say these "are what they are"...original wings with what appear to be original devices. Tough to say if they have always been together...

[tarbridge]

I still like them.Were the attachments done 60 years or 60 weeks ago...who knows.These items will always be subject to interpretation and opinions. If stored under the right conditions 60 years later, they could spotless...stored under the wrong conditions, they could look terrible in 60 weeks.Whoever ''produced'' this set of wings was neat it his work and the pins have to be bent in some direction ...these wings may never have been worn on anything, that could explain the lack of damage.

But definitely, it would be a rare Paratrooper that could pin them on their chest.There was a Paratrooper here in Fayetteville one time with 5 combat stars and he was larger than life.

[BROBS]

This is a set I own, and illustrate what I'm trying to say about "patina" behind the devices and the "wear" on the back of the wing where the prongs were bent over.

 

 

[BROBS]

The more I look at the OP the more I wonder if it originally just had the arrowhead and someone added the stars?

Just look at the age/flatness of that device's prongs compared to the stars'...

[doyler]

..actually the 505th PIR rated 4 stars (Sicily, Salerno, Normandy and Holland). The 504th missed Normandy, and only rated 3 stars...

Agreed...typo on my phone.gotta love auto correct.Thanks Andy!

[Wharfmaster]

As pfrost said, where you buy stuff is every bit or more important than what you are buying.

 

I would not pay a premium for an enhanced badge no matter how good it looks, even from an airborne vet estate. No guarantee he didn't put it together in 1976 to wear on his ball cap.

 

If you don't have a war time vintage photo of the vet wearing the exact badge, it didn't happen.

 

 

Wharf

[BROBS]

 

If you don't have a war time vintage photo of the vet wearing the exact badge, it didn't happen.

 

 

Wharf

 

if this is the case with all items then a lot of stuff "didn't happen" in WW2!

 

if you buy a medal that isn't named to a person who is to say it isn't a replacement and is the original they received?

or one added by a collector later?

 

sure some of these wings (a lot) are humped up but to say the only ones that are "real" are ones with photographic evidence of the man wearing them there must not be a lot of "real" sets... probably only enough to count on my hands without dropping my pants.

 

-Brian

[Flashlarue]

I see no wear patterns on the stars or arrowhead to indicate age and wearing on a uniform. I also see no discoloring behind or around the stars to indicate they have been on the wings for any long period of time, this is especially true of the back of the wings, the entire reverse of the wings is a uniform color even under the wires.

[doyler]

_{These came in right from the officer who owned them.He handed me the box these were in.Probably hadnt seen daylight since the end of the war.}

 

_{Its an older picture I have posted before but it shows a range of wings he owned.If I get time I will get them out for a better picture.He was in the 508th PIR for the entire war.An intresting story he told me(and had heard it from other vets)was how he sent his initial wings home that were his first issue from jump qualification.Some were made into bracelets,some had the pin removed.The story they related to me were how it was a common practice to do this as most felt it was bad luck or superstion to wear your original wings.Not sure what most other units did but speaking with a couple dozen 508th vets and a few 17th I have heard the story more than once.So having wings with little or no wear may have a back story we dont often hear.}

 

 

 

[V42]

They were made in many different ways. Some had larger holes and you pushed the prongs through and bent them over or the prongs were cut down and bent over. Another way was to cut the prongs short and solder them from the back. Many variations for sure and 'YOU' will have to be the final judge as anyone can do the same today with good wings. Unless you know for sure where they came from, a good source or you picked them up from the family, you would just have to tread lightly.