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Unknown Foxtrot patch, cloth wings, oval


TreasureHunter
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TreasureHunter

Please help me out here, strange I cant find the oval anywhere. No luck with the Foxtrot patch either. Oval has soft plastic back. Thanks

 

 

 

post-123772-0-26214000-1441721499.jpg

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The Oval may be for the 101st AIRBORNE DIVISION COMMAND & CONTROL Battalion.Some kinda of high divisional command element of the 101st Abn Div in the late 50s-early 60s. If it is and it's got a plastic coating on the rear, then a Repro, as this Oval is presumably obsolete since around 1963.

 

Here's another one I found, it's IDed as the above mentioned unit, also Stein lists it too.

 

post-34986-0-00747100-1441723524.jpg

 

 

 

 

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TreasureHunter

Awesome, thanks, it just wasn't popping up searching for oval colors. Photo just to confirm its not old. Again thanks. Bill

 

 

post-123772-0-22173600-1441723766.jpg

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TreasureHunter

The plastic is soft/thin, I can almost fold the oval in half but its shiny and slippery on the back.

 

Thanks Ranger, I was thinking Navy/USMC too, after all he is wearing a Navy uniform. I got them all from the same box but not together per say.

 

Thanks

Bill

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The plastic is soft/thin, I can almost fold the oval in half but its shiny and slippery on the back.

 

Thanks Ranger, I was thinking Navy/USMC too, after all he is wearing a Navy uniform. I got them all from the same box but not together per say.

 

Thanks

Bill

Is this coating just covering the rear of the center oval part and not the entire oval , I say this as from here it don't look like the rear border is coated and does not look like the common current plastic coated patches one sees. Can't find a image but maybe there's a few posted around here on the forum.

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The Oval may be for the 101st AIRBORNE DIVISION COMMAND & CONTROL Battalion.Some kinda of high divisional command element of the 101st Abn Div in the late 50s-early 60s. If it is and it's got a plastic coating on the rear, then a Repro, as this Oval is presumably obsolete since around 1963.

 

Here's another one I found, it's IDed as the above mentioned unit, also Stein lists it too.

 

attachicon.gif60_35.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

First let me say that I learned years ago to "never say never".

Now, having said that, I have never been completely at ease with the 101st CNC identification of this oval.

My oldest oval reference material is from the jan-mar 1966 & apr-june 1966 editions of the ASMIC Trading Post and there is no mention of this oval. Next reference is the jan-mar 1969 ASMIC Trading Post and again no mention of the oval.

The first reference in any of my material is in Clyde Osborn's monograph of ovals and flashes in the unidentified section #45

(#70 similar in same section).

I have also heard that this was an early oval for the "Airborne elements" at the USMA. But again, no supporting information on this either. It would be nice to have a hard ID on this one so I can move it out of the unknown/unconfirmed section of my collection

 

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TreasureHunter

The plastic covers the entire back of the oval. It isn't a hard plastic like some modern patches.

 

What if I told you this came off a US Army Air Corps cadet jacket that had N.S. Meyer sterling jump wings on this oval, common ribbons w/ Bronze Star on top, French Fourragere, 11th Airborne patch on right shoulder, Officer infantry insignia on lapel and a rifle qualification badge. Yeah I know a mess of a jacket but was so cheap the sum of the parts was worth it and the dealer actually told me it was put together.

 

Bill

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First let me say that I learned years ago to "never say never".

Now, having said that, I have never been completely at ease with the 101st CNC identification of this oval.

My oldest oval reference material is from the jan-mar 1966 & apr-june 1966 editions of the ASMIC Trading Post and there is no mention of this oval. Next reference is the jan-mar 1969 ASMIC Trading Post and again no mention of the oval.

The first reference in any of my material is in Clyde Osborn's monograph of ovals and flashes in the unidentified section #45

(#70 similar in same section).

I have also heard that this was an early oval for the "Airborne elements" at the USMA. But again, no supporting information on this either. It would be nice to have a hard ID on this one so I can move it out of the unknown/unconfirmed section of my collection

 

Thanks for the more clearer update 468. I got only the one, Stein, not the best in the west to be sure :lol: What's your feeling on the plastic coating, more current right?

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Barry Stein's massive book identifies that oval on Plate 84, Item 33 as "Airborne Department, US Military Academy", worn since 22 August 1957. There is a matching flash that was redesignated from 1st Regimental Combat Team, USMA as well.

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Barry Stein's massive book identifies that oval on Plate 84, Item 33 as "Airborne Department, US Military Academy", worn since 22 August 1957. There is a matching flash that was redesignated from 1st Regimental Combat Team, USMA as well.

 

I shared a table with Barry a few years ago at ASMIC just as he was starting to put his book together.

By his own admission he said that Flashes and Ovals were not his strong point and that he was relying on others heavily for identifications on them (myself included). I still recommend his book as an essential reference for any clothe Army collector but there are some errors in the book. In this case the USMA id is correct but does not reflect the oval being discussed here. Note that the colors are presented in a different order. (also see attached for those who do not have Barry's book)

Since this was posted yesterday I have been going in fast mode to get an id on the oval shown. After talking with some other Flash and Oval collectors we are all about 97% ready to call it a USMA error till proven otherwise.

post-28488-0-00637800-1441811442.jpg

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  • 5 years later...
seanmc1114

Here's an example of the U.S. Military Academy Airborne Department oval being worn, albeit without an AIRBORNE tab over the SSI. 

U.S. Military Academy.Airborne Oval.JPG

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easterneagle87

My view or observation,

 

The inside of the oval appears to be TAN.

 

The Hudson High or USMA oval is YELLOW or GOLDEN in the center.  Two totally different colors.   

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Allan H.
19 minutes ago, seanmc1114 said:

Here's an example of the U.S. Military Academy Airborne Department oval being worn, albeit without an AIRBORNE tab over the SSI. 

U.S. Military Academy.Airborne Oval.JPG

This looks to me like the photo has been colorized. If it hasn't been, that is one CRAZY airborne cap patch with the colors reversed like that!

 

Allan

 

 

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patches
11 hours ago, seanmc1114 said:

Here's an example of the U.S. Military Academy Airborne Department oval being worn, albeit without an AIRBORNE tab over the SSI. 

U.S. Military Academy.Airborne Oval.JPG

Wow this is an old one, like early 60s and no later than the mid 60s as they then wear short sleeve shirts, didn't know West Point had this department this early, thought it was formed like in the 80s.

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Tonomachi

Here is a USMA abn det oval I have for reference which seems to match the one in the photograph although you can't make out the yellow or tan color in the center due to the size and angle of the picture.  

 

 

USMA Westpoint Abn Det.jpg

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