USAF camo patch on an ERDL shirt

[hochiminhtrail]

Hi

 

just bought this airforce shirt , with an air force security squadron patch, the patch is localy made in a kind of camo pattern, is this normal or unusual?

 

cheers

 

Alex

[hochiminhtrail]

well might as well post the picture

 

Hi

 

just bought this airforce shirt , with an air force security squadron patch, the patch is localy made in a kind of camo pattern, is this normal or unusual?

 

cheers

 

Alex

[VALERY]

Hi

SPS means Security Police Squadron and this insignia sounds to be Thailand located unit. I think NTS or Beezman are going to give you an accurate and brilliant answer .

However, did you buy it to a thai seller on eBay who sells a lot of fakes without saying they're fake nor real I've seen few weeks ago a SPS ERDL jacket sold by this man.

Cheers

Valery

[hochiminhtrail]

HI Valery,

 

no it does not come from a thai seller, it comes from the US.

 

Alex

 

Hi

SPS means Security Police Squadron and this insignia sounds to be Thailand located unit. I think NTS or Beezman are going to give you an accurate and brilliant answer .

However, did you buy it to a thai seller on eBay who sells a lot of fakes without saying they're fake nor real I've seen few weeks ago a SPS ERDL jacket sold by this man.

Cheers

Valery

[Polygon]

Yeah, I usually avoid any VN militaria out of Asia because the vast majority of the time, it's just a put together or outright repro conveniently not identified as such in the description.

[Patrick.]

Hi Alex,

 

what is on the rest of the shirt?

 

 

 

Patrick.

[hochiminhtrail]

shirt

[hochiminhtrail]

patch

[Copran]

Alex,

 

I think that the pocket patch is made in Thai ERDL variant material, I think this shirt was sold by Abramsantiques, some time they have good but also put together items. It s strange you son't have the US AF tape. But the shirt looks good to me

[Andrei]

Looks good to me too. Perhaps Beezman will have the answer for the missing USAF tape.

[Mr-X]

Where is Beezman when you need him?

 

Save us Captain Beezman!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alright Alright I know lame joke.... but I made myself laugh though. Isn't that that important thing- that someone laughed.

[gwb123]

You are going to love this website:

 

http://www.vspa.com/aspprotect/7th-af-crests-p1.asp

 

This is the patch collection of the Vietnam Security Police Association.

 

If you page down you will see one like yours with the TSF identified to the 35th Security Police Squadron, Phan Rang AB.

 

However I question if that is correct. I've always understood that the RTG version stood for "Royal Thai Guard", and that the the TSF would stand for "Thai Security Force". Royal Thai Guard would have been Thai military police. Technically our airbases in Thailand were on loan from the Thai government and had a joint guard force. The Thai Security Force were most likely Thai nationals working directly for the Americans.

 

Because of that, I have always associated these patches with an airbase in Thailand.

 

So, this patch needs a bit more research. But I have seen these before, and I have seen them in camouflage. I've also seen USAF Airmen's and NCO sleeve ranks done in OD and camouflage material, as well as name tapes and security police badges. This seems to have been a favorite thing amongst Security Police, and less common among other USAF personnel.

[gwb123]

Okay, now that I did that big write up...

 

If you stay on the VSPA website and go to page 4 of their patches, you will see a patch with RTG / SPS attributed to the 635th SPS at U-Tapao Royal Thai AFB.

 

I am wondering if the organizers of the website just got their notes mixed up, or if the units were related?

 

I forgot to mention, that curly queue design in the middle is meant to represent a roll of concertina wire, typically strung on the perimeter.

[nguoi tien su]

The shirt looks good to me. There are no ranks either?

 

SPS in Thailand worked along with Thai Security Forces, hence the patch.

As for me the shirt is late war. The 635th SPS remained in Thailand until 1976.

 

NTS

[hochiminhtrail]

thanks for all the comments,

 

so is this shirt part of the 35th SPS as from the patch shown in SPS page, what is the conclsusion, was the 35th in thailand or in Vietnam?

 

this shirt was not sold by "Abramsantiques"

 

thanks

 

Alex

 

 

 

 

The shirt looks good to me. There are no ranks either?

 

SPS in Thailand worked along with Thai Security Forces, hence the patch.

As for me the shirt is late war. The 635th SPS remained in Thailand until 1976.

 

NTS

5

[nguoi tien su]

I really don't think it could be the 35th TFS.

For me it is a shirt worn in Thailand as part of the 635th, not Vietnam and VSPA might have messed up with the links?

 

The material used for the shield and patch also looks thai.

 

I guess the guy who sold this shirt made a quick search on the web, found this patch on the 1st page of VSPA and stated that it was the 35th?

 

HCMT, wait for Beezman to wake up and confirm.

[Patrick.]

Hi Alex,

 

you have been picking up some very nice items.

 

Congratulations.

 

 

Patrick.

[gwb123]

Based on everything above, I'd say this was most likely worn by a member of the 635th SPS at U-Tapao.

[hochiminhtrail]

Thanks gwb123

 

Based on everything above, I'd say this was most likely worn by a member of the 635th SPS at U-Tapao.

[gwb123]

Since last night I traded emails with a historian for the VSPA website, Mr. Ken Record.

 

Although Ken's main expertise is unit history, his impression is that the VSPA website may have mislabeled the ones listed as 35th SPS, and that these patches should be attributed to the 635th SPS.

 

As to the authenticity of this shirt... I know these patches or similar ones have been reproduced in Vietnam. I belive the Security Police pocket badge has also been remade as well. So it is right to question it.

 

One thing that bothers me about this shirt is there should be rank on it. The USAF was not using pin-on rank, and the custom would have been sleeve chevrons for enlisted men, or sewn collar rank for officers.

 

On the flip side, if someone was going to the trouble of making a "put together" uniform, why would they skip the obvious step of adding a USAF tape and some kind of rank?

 

One possiblility is that this uniform was never worn by the serviceman, and the insignia were never fully added on. Or it was stopped in mid production at the shop.

 

I've had my hands on some original examples. Here's a couple that I posted on another thread....

 

(By the way, we should ask the Forum Administrator to change the title of this thread to USAF Camo shirt and patch or something like that... we'd get a lot more people looking at this.)

[hochiminhtrail]

thanks gwb for your research, yes we should change it to USAF camo shirt,

the shirt was not expensive and i took a chance through e bay, the seller has another USAF shirt with a US name tape and a thai traduction, you might see it on e bay right now.

regarding the one trhat i have posted, all patches and insignias have been put on at the same time, with trhe same thread, the pocket has been opened to put the pocket patch on, the shirt is smelling like it has been stored for a couple of years, The USAF tape has been removed, no further rank insignias are visible.

 

cheers

 

Alex

Since last night I traded emails with a historian for the VSPA website, Mr. Ken Record.

 

Although Ken's main expertise is unit history, his impression is that the VSPA website may have mislabeled the ones listed as 35th SPS, and that these patches should be attributed to the 635th SPS.

 

As to the authenticity of this shirt... I know these patches or similar ones have been reproduced in Vietnam. I belive the Security Police pocket badge has also been remade as well. So it is right to question it.

 

One thing that bothers me about this shirt is there should be rank on it. The USAF was not using pin-on rank, and the custom would have been sleeve chevrons for enlisted men, or sewn collar rank for officers.

 

On the flip side, if someone was going to the trouble of making a "put together" uniform, why would they skip the obvious step of adding a USAF tape and some kind of rank?

 

One possiblility is that this uniform was never worn by the serviceman, and the insignia were never fully added on. Or it was stopped in mid production at the shop.

 

I've had my hands on some original examples. Here's a couple that I posted on another thread....

 

(By the way, we should ask the Forum Administrator to change the title of this thread to USAF Camo shirt and patch or something like that... we'd get a lot more people looking at this.)

[hochiminhtrail]

Hi gwb

 

i have found this article about the 635th, for sure the patches on my shirt are not of Vietnamese origin, just from the look at the camo material, not sure what period and where they were made, they do not look like the cheap patches i have seen in Vietnam, but i might be wrong to.

 

i have found this article about the 635th looks that the 635th served in vietnam at one time. This account come from a veteran posted on a website, there is no further comment on what base and where it was, i have sent him a message and hope to get some news.

 

from 635th Security Police Squadron

 

Jun

23 Jan.10th 1972 2;30am

Bombers come underattack from VC terroist. Security force succeded in replelling the forces and only 1B-52D model was slightly damaged. One VC was killed while no security forces were injured.

 

 

cheers

 

Alex

 

thanks gwb for your research, yes we should change it to USAF camo shirt,

the shirt was not expensive and i took a chance through e bay, the seller has another USAF shirt with a US name tape and a thai traduction, you might see it on e bay right now.

regarding the one trhat i have posted, all patches and insignias have been put on at the same time, with trhe same thread, the pocket has been opened to put the pocket patch on, the shirt is smelling like it has been stored for a couple of years, The USAF tape has been removed, no further rank insignias are visible.

 

cheers

 

Alex

[gwb123]

Sounds like you have a good item. I'm glad I could help!

 

It's unfortunate that we have to question everything we find from the Vietnam period so thoroughly. But it is all good research in the end.

 

We have so much good information showing up on the internet, like the VSPA website, that it is making research so much easier.

 

Looking at the lettering used for the SPS / RTG patch that I posted, the embroidery style looks very, very close to your SPS / TSF patch. The chain links or concertina across the center look different, but that does not prove things one way or another.

 

You may want to contact the VSPA for additional information on the 635th SPS.

[nguoi tien su]

Alex,

 

23 Jan.10th 1972 2;30am

Bombers come underattack from VC terroist. Security force succeded in replelling the forces and only 1B-52D model was slightly damaged. One VC was killed while no security forces were injured.

 

The attack was at U-Tapao, home of the 635th SPS, not in VN.

There have never been B52s in VN except on one occasion when a B52 badly damaged landed at DaNang Air Base.

 

As for the reproduction of those patches, I know of copies coming from Thailand, but I have never seen those made in VN.

 

So Alex, once again, no sweat, you have a nice 635th SPS shirt, all legit but with missing ranks and USAF tape.

 

Good night !

 

NTS

[hochiminhtrail]

Ok thanks NTS,

 

i think i didnt get the story right

 

Cheers

 

Alex

 

Alex,

The attack was at U-Tapao, home of the 635th SPS, not in VN.

There have never been B52s in VN except on one occasion when a B52 badly damaged landed at DaNang Air Base.

 

As for the reproduction of those patches, I know of copies coming from Thailand, but I have never seen those made in VN.

 

So Alex, once again, no sweat, you have a nice 635th SPS shirt, all legit but with missing ranks and USAF tape.

 

Good night !

 

NTS