Did service men bring home their guns?

[Old Sarge]

??? Bill, if you would compare our veterans to the Baltimore rioters, I really could care less for your asinine point of view. I seriously doubt anyone who has honorably served would make a statement like that. Charger one one out.

[Old Sarge]

Nothing against an officer, because I've served with some whom were the finest creatures God created, but if it was okay for a general to bring home his side arm, then why would it be so terrible for Joe, who is out there where the metal meets the meat, living in a frozen hole, watching his buddies die around him, eating out of a can, to abscond with a pistol he picked up at in Hurtgenwald? Really guys? Is this what we've come to? How many MC-1 helmets would be on the collectors market if Joe Snuffy hadn't stuck his in his duffle bag and bought it home? It's easy for us to sit back in comfort and judge these men. I personally don't take a negative view of them, even though it was illegal, if you do, then I respectfully disagree. Hopefully we can leave it at that and get back to the original question.

[Ronnie]

Well said Sarge.

Ronnie

[Bill in VA]

??? Bill, if you would compare our veterans to the Baltimore rioters, I really could care less for your asinine point of view. I seriously doubt anyone who has honorably served would make a statement like that. Charger one one out.

Reading is fundamental and you've deliberately mis-stated my comment. You said those veterans with stolen US small arms "earned" the right to keep their guns. I said your justification of their theft is the same justification used by rioting thugs to help themselves to cigarettes and booze from looting convenience stores: "they earned it." Nowhere did I compare ."our veterans" to the rioters. But yes, a thief is a thief is a thief, and veteran status doesn't absolve them. Throw your tantrums and and wax sanctimonious about how veteran status negates anything else. I'm done with this thread.

[Old Sarge]

I miss stated your comment so you repeat it again? Maybe reading COMPREHENSION should be fundamental! Tantrums? On the contrary, my buddies and I have gotten a pretty good laugh from this, it's been a long week. I'll leave this one alone because it's taken a turn for the worse and Bill is starting to sound a little shrill.

[dustin]

Back in January I was at the national archives and one of the tasks was to go through a bunch of Bureau of Ordnance files. In these files were hundreds if not thousands of carbon copies of Lost and Stolen property reports for mainly side arms but rifles too. The bulk were from stateside facilities and from mid to late 1945. I found it interesting that many fire arms began to disappear as the war ended, the downsizing of personnel equaled the down sizing of the armory hmmm. In hind sight it would have been interesting to copy all those and create a data base of the serial numbers for those to cross reference the fire arms in their collections.

Theft was a major issue in the service in WWII on many levels, it is interesting how a tag of verbiage can change an opinion or response. Simply put if you take something without permission it is theft and you are a thief by definition. What may have occurred with many things could be regarded in the same lines as a "little white lie". Bill is not on a campaign to lynch he is just not sugar coating and using soft terms like "liberated" "commandeered" etc. but it got really personal when "thief" was used which is a very accurate description and regarded as disrespectful and judgmental that would seem asinine. Thief in this topic is like the word "ignorant" which is regarded in most circles as degrading but in reality it simply means "you do not know" same with the word "retard" but it simply means backwards or off and is a regular technical term such as in the auto industry for example when you adjust timing.

This topic got me thinking about the medical documents I have obtained and how the theft of morphine was always a hot topic an epidemic really, who was taking them? obviously addicts of some kind but would it be appropriate to say that hey they are overseas and earned the right to a temporary reprieve from the environment their in?

I get a sense some are taking this way to personal as if one cannot label vets with titles less than flattering.

[Charlie Flick]

Gentlemen:

 

Please accept this as a friendly reminder that name calling and the use of pejorative terms fall outside of the spirit of our Forum. Thanks.

 

Regards,

Charlie

[usmc3439]

I think that we all have to be aware of the difference in the times we live, compared to the times they lived and served. Things like taking a pistol, for example, were viewed as something insignificant, whereas nowadays is viewed as a very serious offense. We cannot utilize our current views of social behavior to judge those people that lived way before our time.

 

Just my two cents.

[FortJohn]

I knew a guy that was a Lt. and a army armorer in the 50's 60's.He was issued a 45 auto,carbine,rack grade M-1,M-1 D,and a BAR.He bought the 45 auto and the M-1D for $37.50 apiece.He told me he wasn't allowed to buy the BAR and he was only allowed to buy one of the Garands.He said only an idiot would of bought the rack grade.He didn't buy the carbine because they weren't worth much more than that at the time.

[m151mp]

one of the jobs assigned to the MP's was to check hold baggage for guys leaving the nam. other MP's were assigned to customs duties at various posts around the world. we were supposed to make sure no ordnance items that were US issue left the country, headed for CONUS. not all the MP's i knew were equally diligent in their tasks. not all the MP's were RA, some were draftees, and some of both types really didn't care that much about what they were supposed to be doing. some were lazy, a small number may have been bribed. i know of a few that we busted, and sent to USDB. it's not a happy place, and we take a dim view of MP's that end up there. that doesn't mean it didn't happen. as for issue equipment items that are not weapons, plenty of guys would go to clothing sales, or to legitimate vendors and buy extras, so that we could always have a clean and perfect set for inspections and guard mounts, that sort of thing. MP's usually kept an extra leather rig clean and ready, in case the one you were wearing got torn up in a scuffle. we bought these, so we brought them home. i never saw anyone slip a US issue weapon past the inspectors, but i was a very small cog in a very large machine, and i have no doubt that there were some who got away with it.

[Ronnie]

Definitely some got away with during the V/N war and unbelievably some got away with it during Desert Storm.

Ronnie

[SFMike]

Usually an issued weapon was signed for and recorded at company levels.

When you left there, it was accounted for and you got another next place you went.

 

In Vn, there were zillions of pieces of US equipment that had been there since the 50s.

Most left by the French and passed through many hands.

 

GIs in the fields had little access to this stuff but others were more exposed.

 

I had a Swedish k and a 1911A1 I bought off the Black Market.

 

I gave the K away and snuck the .45 home-luckily missed the shakedown.

I gave it away recently.

 

Silly to say a GI "deserves" any of their gear or weapons. I would never imagine bringing a helmet or field gea home-glad to be rid of it.

 

Some guys fail to understand that the military is not a cookie cutter existance with the same regs, customs, and practices being identical at all times.

 

It is much like real life, Different day, different stuff. No two stories will usually be the same.

 

Calling guys thieves is going a bit far. If you have ever seen the waste and abuse of some items you would understand having an atitude.

I have been in situations where we barely had what we needed and were short of what we had. At the same time, some other guys had things to burn.

 

I recall finally scrounging a wrist compass which wa a very handy rhing to have in the bush.

I passed through our rear area "C" team later and saw lots of them being used by clerks, etc for navigating to the club and back.

[Ronnie]

Great explanation SFMike.

Ronnie

[Fiziwater]

I wasn't a ground pounder while in 'Nam, but a guy heading home offered to sell me a Thompson for $40. I was tempted, but even at that price I didn't want to risk anything that would add one minute to my trip home. As it turned out, I got bumped in Guam, flew in a drafty C5A by way of Anchorage, delayed there, and finally made it home on the East coast after 3 long days. Got into collecting battle rifles late in life, but still think about that Thompson.

[gomorgan]

Had a great friend now gone, served three years in the Aleutians as a armorer in a CAC unit, when they transfered home as a unit, he crated up a unissued 03 & M-1 (both Springfield) for himself, the CO & 1st Sgt. They split them up when arrived in Calf. and shipped home by mail from there. His son still has them...

[warcollect1942]

I was working at a gun store in Southern California 10 years ago. A gentleman came in with Japanese

type 99 machine gun. He said his father brought it back. The store I was working at had three FFLs.

It broke my heart but I had to tell him to take it to the Anaheim police department.

[Bob Carter]

I've had quite a few things brought back by vets that they felt were too nice for combat and sent them home - mint .45 from a Marine officer, mint V42 from a FSSF vet, mint M2 knife from a paratrooper officer, but my favorite was from a 101st/506th vet that was my neighbor and friend, he was dividing up guns between his kids and asked me to appraise them so the division was fair, when we finished he said there's one more and went into his bedroom - he knew my appreciation for airborne and said I want you to have this and handed me a standard carbine, I told him that my service was out of friendship and he should keep it in the family with the rest of his momentos, he chuckled and said, you'll appreciate more than they will and I will as long as I'm alive.

 

 

 

[warcollect1942]

WOW that carving adds a whole new dimension.

[Bob Carter]

He was a post Market Garden replacement and there's a set of initials carved in it that aren't his, I think that's why he had it.

[White Walker]

And gas was $.32 a gallon does that tell how old I am. My father sent all the pieces for his(now mine) Remington Rand M1911A1 in his bagage from Vietnam. He hand carried the frame through customs in the folder with his orders. The inspector looked in the folder and handed it back to my father and sent him on his way. I need to take some pics and tell the story.

 

 

Man, I remember 12 Cents a gallon during gas wars between stations. Of course they all had full service too. Otherwise, gas was in the teens to maybe 19 Cents per gallon. I don't think there was anything you could call "Chump Change",

[Blu1989]

My dad was able to smuggle home much of his issue gear after he left Vietnam. He only turned in a handful of gear when he was discharged including his 1911, holster, helmet, rifle, boots, and any ammo, mags, and ordinance he had on him. Everything else over time he claimed got "lost" and thus he turned back in replacement gear in order to keep his originals. He made it through customs in San Francisco with a sea bag full of gear and an sks sticking through a hole on the bottom.He always said either the MPs were lazy and didn't check his bag or he got lucky. He told me he saw several men in his unit breaking down their 1911s and hiding them in their toiletrie bags. He wondered if maybe he should've done that too.

[jprostak]

Sorry, I can't find the document I copied at the National Archives right now. At the end of the Span Am War, soldiers could purchase their .45/70 caliber weapons and field gear if they wished. .30/40's were not for sale. Can't recall the situation with pistols, but seem to remember that older model pistols could be purchased, just not the newest model.

 

At the end of WWI soldiers were allowed one uniform set, a gas mask and bag and their helmet. No US Firearms.

 

The question was asked very open ended, so lots of opinions, covering lots of time periods.

 

I really don't think there was any time since the Civil War when you could just bring your weapon home if you even could at that time.

 

I don't think that at the end of WWII too many people cared what foreign weapons were brought home. I have a mint 98 Mauser with all matching numbers and perfect finish. Only problem is that the stock was cut to fit it in a duffle bag. I also have a friend who played Army as a kid after with an MP 40 with the bolt removed. Not one of the stories anyone has told of US weapons being brought home is a case of being allowed.

[retread12345]

My DAD was not a gun guy, BUT he managed to get a M1911A1 home to keep just in case. It was NIB and he got it when his MP Unit was cleaning up

after a hurricane in the Bahamas. I saw it once or twice, and when he thought I was getting too fixated on it he tossed it off the GW Bridge,

[Bob Hudson]

Even the Commander-In-Chief cannot have certain war souvenirs:

 

 

One of the people on the trip - Herb Klein - was allowed to keep this.

 

[atb]

I have heard that General Officers have the option to purchase their specially issued GO pistols. Is anyone able to confirm and if so, how long has this practice been in effect?