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WWI Marine Corps Bell Crown


MurfreesboroMemphis
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MurfreesboroMemphis

I just acquired a Dress Blue Marine cover. It is a private purchase and has a contract date of 1916. it is named to a J P Flanagan. In my research, I discovered a James P Flanagan that enlisted in 1916 and bounced around state side until spring of 1918 when he was a National Naval Volunteer. He then shows up in the 134th replacement battalion and finally the 95th company in September 1918 when he is KIA. There are two other James P Flanagans who enlisted in March and May of 1918 and both remained state side. They are both out of the muster rolls by the end of 1918. Based on the fact that this is a dress blue cover, I believe this would have likely belonged to the first Marine as I can't imagine the other two marines being issued dress blues. The only problem is, the EGA seems to be too late. However, after 99 years, the EGA could have easily been swapped out. What do you all think? I'd like to hear who you believe the cover belonged to and why? Thanks gents.

 

-Will

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I don't see why the other two would not have had a dress blue cap, they probably enlisted for the duration of the war. Basically, you will never know. The 1916 contract date is just that, and not the date it was issued. These were passed around from one Marine to another and that is why you so often see multiple names inside, and I would imagine some sat in storage before being issued, so the 1916 date alone doesn't help much. The ega is later and who knows why, a collector or dealer perhaps plopped it on there. I would replace it once you get a chance. It is a nice cap and I wouldn't get too wrapped up on trying to prove that it belonged to a Marine KIA in WWI. Unless you find his service number in there you just will never know for certain. Kevin

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MurfreesboroMemphis

I don't see why the other two would not have had a dress blue cap, they probably enlisted for the duration of the war. Basically, you will never know. The 1916 contract date is just that, and not the date it was issued. These were passed around from one Marine to another and that is why you so often see multiple names inside, and I would imagine some sat in storage before being issued, so the 1916 date alone doesn't help much. The ega is later and who knows why, a collector or dealer perhaps plopped it on there. I would replace it once you get a chance. It is a nice cap and I wouldn't get too wrapped up on trying to prove that it belonged to a Marine KIA in WWI. Unless you find his service number in there you just will never know for certain. Kevin

 

I'm not looking to prove that it was that individual Marine based on his war experience. After having read quite a few memoirs and biographies of Marines who signed up during the war, one thing that I saw time and again was mention that they were all disappointed when they discovered they weren't going to be issued Dress Blues. I remember Don Paradis specifically mentioning that everyone was jealous of the Marines selected for Sea Service as they knew they would all be issued Blues. Based on this information I assumed that the Marine who served before the war would be the likely candidate to have been issued Blues. I did realize that there was a fourth James P. Flanagan who enlisted in 1920 or 1921 after my first post. He would be thrown into the mix as well as the he enlisted prior to the design change in 1922. I'm amazed how four men with the same somewhat unique name were serving within a five years period. Thanks for the input!

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Is there a distinct ghost of the EGA under the emblem? As stated, could have been added by the seller recently

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MurfreesboroMemphis

Is there a distinct ghost of the EGA under the emblem? As stated, could have been added by the seller recently

Brig, I'll check when I get home.

 

 

Not private purchase hat, usmc depot purchased them too from Jacob Reed. That is legitimate usmc issued cap.

Alec, I had no idea they were contracted to do that. That makes sense as to why I had seen a few. I believe they went out of business in the 80's.

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Sure didn't mean to suggest ill intent. I once spent five hours pouring over the 4th Brigade roster studying serial numbers because I acquired a 5th Marines Machine gun helmet (purple square) with a serial number inside and all digits were visible and clear save the last one. I ultimately boiled it down to one of two on the roster and will have to forever be satisfied with that. One of the two was WIA and received the silver star (citation), the other nothing so sexy, save his service to our country of course. My point is I fully appreciate and respect the desire to attach as much history to these items as we possibly can, but sometimes we just hit the end of the road. It is interesting that you found a fourth Marine who enlisted in 1920 or 21. I am NOT the foremost expert on ega's, but isn't the one on it a 1920 pattern? If you don't see the ghost of a previous one, maybe that ega has been on it all the while and the fourth Marine is your guy. Who knows. As you already pointed out this style hat was in existence until 1922, and really later as the manufacturing caught up to the design changes. Alec know best on this issue of course. By the way, I have an officers bell crown (all were private purchase) made by Jacob Reed as well. Good luck-Kevin

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MurfreesboroMemphis

Kevin,

 

I know you didn't mean any ill intent. I just wanted to be clear that I wasn't trying to twist the facts to try and make the cover something that it wasn't based on the story. All Marines that served during this time have pretty interesting service records despite whether they served with the AEF of not. I'm also not an EGA guy but I believe you're correct.

 

-Will

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MurfreesboroMemphis

Jeff,

 

At some point during the life of the cover someone stitched up a couple places. It appears to have been done quite a long time ago as the thread is coming loose in each place and the thread doesn't glow under blacklight. Definitely an amateur job.

-Will

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Nothing wrong with stitched holes, have seen it before.

 

Unfortunately, no ghost except the globe. I'm with the others, probably the Marine who served in the 20's

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normaninvasion

Just pure conjecture on my part but I'm going to lean towards this cover belonging to the Marine in the 20s. The cover EGA, while not uncommon, is a bit harder to find then a P-1916. I would also say that most bell crowns are found with the '16 emblem. Making it unlikely that a collector would add a 20s model on it. If all original I think it's a great combination and example of post WW1 Marine service. Just my thoughts and as we know just speculation.

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MurfreesboroMemphis

I tend to agree with you all, your explanation seems very plausible. Next question is, the Marine who's enlistment date is 1921 shows up as being in the Reserve from day 1. Did Reservists back then not go through boot camp or could it be one of the Marines who joined late war and got out and reenlisted? Do the muster rolls show the original enlistment date or would they show the reenlistment date?

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MurfreesboroMemphis

I think I just answered part of my own question. I referenced another Marine who's cover I have and was KIA at Soissons. I have his SRB from St. Louis so I can confirm he served two enlistments. He served from 1899-1904 and reenlisted in 1917. Each enlistment references the date of enlistment for that contract. Is there a way to determine whether the 20's Marine was prior service? Thanks again gents.

 

-Will

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Haditha07USMCR

I tend to agree with you all, your explanation seems very plausible. Next question is, the Marine who's enlistment date is 1921 shows up as being in the Reserve from day 1. Did Reservists back then not go through boot camp or could it be one of the Marines who joined late war and got out and reenlisted? Do the muster rolls show the original enlistment date or would they show the reenlistment date?

 

I think reservists in that period either didnt have to initially or the Marine Corps didnt deem it necessary period. In the Muster Rolls I have seen guys going from reserves to active having to go through basic when they transitioned. For what its worth I had a set of blues belonging to one such Marine and he had the blues in the reserves, prior to going through boot on his way to FMF.

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My wife's grandfather was in the Marine Reserves in the 1930s and did not have to go through boot camp.

 

 

I tend to agree with you all, your explanation seems very plausible. Next question is, the Marine who's enlistment date is 1921 shows up as being in the Reserve from day 1. Did Reservists back then not go through boot camp or could it be one of the Marines who joined late war and got out and reenlisted? Do the muster rolls show the original enlistment date or would they show the reenlistment date?

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MurfreesboroMemphis

Josh and Alec,

 

I believe I had discussed both of these Marines with each of you previously. I should have known that but it slipped my mind.

 

-Will

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If I recall correctly, I owned the cap in the 90's. It was sold to me as James Flanagan 95th Co. KIA at Battle of Saint-Mihiel. If I recall correctly, been awhile, but it had chin strap at the time. It was sold to me as a KIA cap. I purchased off eBay, I think I traded it a year later. I remember a moth nip or two, seems like ega was darker, a patina when I had it. Wonder if someone stripped this cap for another???

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MurfreesboroMemphis

Chris,

 

Do you by chance have any pictures? It's interesting how stuff pops up time and again.

 

-Will

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