manayunkman Posted February 15, 2018 #26 Posted February 15, 2018 Great information. Thank you for taking the time.
Airborne-Hunter Posted February 16, 2021 #27 Posted February 16, 2021 I'll add this one from p.92 - April 1929 Popular Aviation Mechanic - note the reference to a catalog - if anyone has this catalog I have a piece that needs ID'ing
5thwingmarty Posted February 16, 2021 #28 Posted February 16, 2021 The two items shown in this advert were also offered by Karl Ort. He also offered a variety of "embroidered aviation insignia" in various styles and colors. Does the piece you need identified have a Johnson Company hallmark? I believe Karl Ort sold items made by other companies, and it may be that Johnson Company did as well. I have a bracelet with the "groundman or mechanic" insignia shown above mounted on it, but it was made by Apple.
rathbonemuseum.com Posted September 30, 2022 #29 Posted September 30, 2022 From the 1919 Walter Rieb company of embroidery and hat makers. Suppliers of military and fraternal gear located in a brownstone in the East Village of NYC. In 1922 they were taken over by GEMSCO according to a trade magazine. In the catalog, we see both embroidered WWI regulation USAS wings and insignia and then on the next page, 1919 regulations "Adams" style metal flight qualification insignia.
rathbonemuseum.com Posted September 30, 2022 #30 Posted September 30, 2022 Thanks to @5thwingmarty we have this spread from the 1923 BB&B catalog showing what was regulation. The Adams style "Airplane Pilot", the 1920 regulation US "Balloon Observer", the newly authorized 1921 "Airship Pilot" and the Naval aviator wings. Also shown are the small gold wings for Army flight instructor and US air mail pilot.
Dave Posted September 30, 2022 #31 Posted September 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, rathbonemuseum.com said: Thanks to @5thwingmarty we have this spread from the 1923 BB&B catalog showing what was regulation. The Adams style "Airplane Pilot", the 1920 regulation US "Balloon Observer", the newly authorized 1921 "Airship Pilot" and the Naval aviator wings. Also shown are the small gold wings for Army flight instructor and US air mail pilot. Naval officer's cap ornament in three sizes! Looks like I've got a few more examples to find!!!
rathbonemuseum.com Posted October 4, 2022 #32 Posted October 4, 2022 Another catalog from the Johnson Co. of NYC. Note that the primary business advertised is for Trophies, Loving Cups and Plaques and other engraved metalcraft.
rathbonemuseum.com Posted October 4, 2022 #33 Posted October 4, 2022 Johnson ad in Ellington Field yearbook
haw68 Posted October 6, 2022 #34 Posted October 6, 2022 On 9/30/2022 at 12:38 PM, rathbonemuseum.com said: Thanks to @5thwingmarty we have this spread from the 1923 BB&B catalog showing what was regulation. The Adams style "Airplane Pilot", the 1920 regulation US "Balloon Observer", the newly authorized 1921 "Airship Pilot" and the Naval aviator wings. Also shown are the small gold wings for Army flight instructor and US air mail pilot. Attached is an ad from Army and Navy Journal (July 22, 1922 pg 1162) showing the BB&B Airship Wings. The 'from Official Die' means the insignia was produced from a stamping die that was made from an 'official' hub. On other similar hubs I am familiar with the hub was made at the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia for the Philadelphia Quartermaster. The QM would then send the 'official' hubs to select manufacturers to produce insignia. In the case of the Airship Pilot Wings I can prove M C Lilley manufactured these from official dies. I assume BB&B manufactured these from 'official' hubs sent to them as well. However, it is possible BB&B acquired this insignia from Lilley or another manufacturer.
rathbonemuseum.com Posted October 6, 2022 #35 Posted October 6, 2022 There is currently a BB&B sterling airship wing for sale on ebay for $3,500.00. Since the original was for sale at $3.50 approximately 100 years ago in 1922, that is an 1000X gain on investment!
haw68 Posted October 7, 2022 #36 Posted October 7, 2022 On 2/4/2017 at 5:31 PM, cwnorma said: M.C. Lilley was a well-known manufacturer of military uniforms, insignia and society goods in Columbus, Ohio: Interestingly, it appears as though this insignia is the same as the one in the illustration. Perhaps we can now identify this well-made, handsome insignia as having been made by M.C. Lilley: Chris - I have no doubt your insignia was manufactured by M C Lilley as you suggest above. Attached is an image of Lilley's hub used to make the stamping die which made the collar insignia in the ad. This one is regulation size ~1.75" wide. The smaller 'shirt size' is 1.25" wide and I have the hub for this too. The '3342' number on the hub is M C Lilley's die serial number which dates this to 1918. I also have the stamping die. Pretty cool to positively ID insignia that has no hallmark!
cwnorma Posted October 7, 2022 Author #37 Posted October 7, 2022 Heath, Your collection never ceases to astound! Thank you for sharing. Chris
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now