manayunkman Posted June 24, 2015 Share #1 Posted June 24, 2015 I stumbled across these in Central Pa. at the Green Dragon. I gave a 10.00 deposit to hold them so I could check it out. Just not sure of the legality of having or selling them. What are they worth ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share #2 Posted June 24, 2015 Any way to get a date on them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d6t Posted June 24, 2015 Share #3 Posted June 24, 2015 I believe the blue spoon with the brown mark indicates it's a practice fuse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
268th C.A. Posted June 24, 2015 Share #4 Posted June 24, 2015 It is a practice fuse, but from the looks they are still live, these are designed to make a loud bang when they go off. They will take off a finger or two. If not in a practice grenade when ignited. Unless there for smoke grenades they will still burn extremely hot. Becareful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted June 24, 2015 Share #5 Posted June 24, 2015 Yes, practice. Worth maybe $4-8 IMO maybe a bit more for the jungle clip, my local surplus store sells dummy grenades with these fuzes for $8 These are still live, as when they blow up it takes off 2/3rds of the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted June 24, 2015 What are the legalities ? I know what they are and what they do just don't know if they are legal and how much are they worth in this condition. I didn't know about the jungle clip...what is that ? Anyone know what era they are from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted June 25, 2015 Share #7 Posted June 25, 2015 The jungle clip is the small wire clip going over the spoon, it was added because it was discovered that in jungle the pin could snag and detonate the grenade, they are commonly missing from grenades and somebody MAY pay a decent amount for one to complete a grenade. I can't pin-point the era but the M228 fuze goes to the M69 grenade, which is the practice version of the M67 grenade adopted in 1967, so 1967 to present. As far as legality I can't help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 25, 2015 Share #8 Posted June 25, 2015 This might not be a good time to buy them. BATF is currently in a real tizzy over M228 fuzes and there are a couple of ongoing prosecutions of people buying and selling them. A large quantity turned up at Knob Creek a couple years ago (like a pallet full). A couple of dealers who sold them by the tray-full have had their sales records inspected and ATF has contacted buyers to surrender them. From what I've heard, if they are cooperative and give them up without complaint, that's usually the end of it. Like previous discussions here about the legality of smoke grenades, BATF has taken the position that the initiating compounds in military grenade fuzes are classified as explosive materials and you need an explosives license to buy and sell them. It's correct that these are just practice fuzes and contain a small bursting charge of black powder. It gets kind of muddy though, as even the manufacturer, Martin Electronics (MEI), refers to them as "detonating fuzes" on their website. Mere possession of one or two live M228 fuzes probably won't land you in federal prison, but it won't score you any brownie points with ATF either. After this discussion on an open forum, I'd suggest you stay far away from them. Here's some interesting reading on the subject...... http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/11/03/copley-home-of-alleged-illegal-online-arms-dealer-raided-by-feds http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2015/06/alabama_man_illegally_sold_134.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted June 25, 2015 Share #9 Posted June 25, 2015 Ordinance, I assume that is just live ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 25, 2015 Share #10 Posted June 25, 2015 Sorry, yes, I was just referring to live fuzes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted June 25, 2015 Good advice Ordnance. That's what I wanted to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmanton Posted June 25, 2015 Share #12 Posted June 25, 2015 The trouble is that an inert grenade could be made live with one of these fuses and some gun powder. BAD news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted June 25, 2015 Share #13 Posted June 25, 2015 The trouble is that an inert grenade could be made live with one of these fuses and some gun powder. BAD news While it could likely be used as a detonator for an IED, I doubt gun powder would make a very good grenade, as gunpowder is a low explosive and most grenades use high explosives, like TNT, or Composition B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill in VA Posted June 26, 2015 Share #14 Posted June 26, 2015 While it could likely be used as a detonator for an IED, I doubt gun powder would make a very good grenade, as gunpowder is a low explosive and most grenades use high explosives, like TNT, or Composition B. I thought I made a similar post, complete with the cites from the USC but either I forgot to hit "post" or a mod deleted it for some reason. (Maybe my example of that possession of two common household cleaners can make a poison gas, but still isn't an NFA violation?) Regardless, check § 5845 of the NFA. Since it's under a 1/4 oz. it's not a DD, and mere possession of precursors does not necessarily equal a violation; there needs to intent (i.e., what the prosecutor calls mens rea.) BTW, most small arms gun powder is a propellant, not an explosive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary C Posted July 28, 2015 Share #15 Posted July 28, 2015 Made in October 1974 by Martin Electronics Inc. Stay away from them if they're live!!! ATF don't like people having live grenade fuzes.... Straight from a friends mouth who happens to work for an agency with just such letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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