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Unknown female overseas hat - USMCWR?


Quest Master

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Quest Master

I recently picked up this female overseas hat, but have no idea what it is. The hat in question is the one in the center with the red arrow. Shown for color comparison is an Army hat at the the top and USMCWR working uniform hat at the bottom. The color of the center hat is green/grey, not quite the color of the USMCWR dress uniform. It is not faded, the color is consistent on the outside and the inside.

 

What branch does it belong to? The hat was made by KNOX, New York and has a size tag on the inside, but that is it. Any ideas?

post-5775-0-30927100-1434630932.jpg

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Quest Master

Inside

post-5775-0-25152600-1434631208.jpg

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Quest Master

Inside spec tag

post-5775-0-64038600-1434631236.jpg

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Jumpin Jack

While I'm not sure as the cut of the garrison cap is not consistent with the female Marine, my guess is Marine. Knox was a primary maker of Marine headgear. Just as a matter of interest, I have a very large grouping belonging to a female Marine Rigger. Among her uniform items is a male pattern garrison cap with her name in it. Jack

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Quest Master

The cut of cap is consistent with female garrison caps, but the color does not match any Marine uniform cloth that I have. It is more of a slate/green like the male WWII Navy Aviation Green dress uniform.

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Quest Master

The fabric is almost a cross between elastique and twill. Not like the wool for the USMCWR dress uniform or the cotton for the working uniform. Because it is made by Knox, I would figure it would be color specifically designed for uniform type, rather than an off color.

 

.

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Could it be a private purchase enlisted army cap?

GOT SEABEE ITEMS? PM ME!

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Quest Master

Oh wow! Really? :)

I had previously gone over the ANC section on the blitzkreigbaby.de website, and I didn't think that was ANC previously because of the color (usually the WAC/ANC winter uniforms are more of a dark-olive or chocolate)...and because it didn't have any piping around it.

 

Is this hat specific to the ANC because of the color as apposed to the normal dark-olive elastique style of the WAC?

 

Thanks for all the help Kat!

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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The service cap for Army female nurses was designed by the private company of Knox hats. This was the reason why I first believed it was an ANC cap. The nurses had a summer overseas cap that I thought might be this one. I did notice it didn’t have piping but thought maybe it hadn’t been added. I looked thru my “Women for Victory” book that has the ANC and thought I had it identified correctly.

 

However, after looking at the picture again, I wonder if it could be the taupe garrison cap belonging to the WAAC. With it being against a pink background in your picture, it is throwing off the colors.

 

What color would you say it is closer to; the darker olive drab or more of a lighter taupe color? The taupe WAAC cap is described in the book “Dressed for Duty” as being “identical for all ranks; officers did not wear piping along the curtain. This cap was made of taupe (shade no. 121) wool and lined in a slightly darker taupe silk or satin.”

 

Either way, I definitely think it is Army. Just not positive if it is ANC or WAAC.

 

Thanks, Kat

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While I'm not sure as the cut of the garrison cap is not consistent with the female Marine, my guess is Marine. Knox was a primary maker of Marine headgear. Just as a matter of interest, I have a very large grouping belonging to a female Marine Rigger. Among her uniform items is a male pattern garrison cap with her name in it. Jack

 

Just as Quest Master said, the women Marines did have a garrison cap cut in the female style the same as other branches. However, just like other branches, there was often a shortage of women's uniforms. :) The military branches just weren't prepared for all of the women. Quite often, the women in the military wore portions of men's uniforms. This is why your female rigger had a male pattern garrison cap.

 

....Kat

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Quest Master

Ok....here is the cover in natural light. You can see, it is almost a light green/slate color.

post-5775-0-92782400-1434828624.jpg

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Quest Master

The same cover (indoor light) compared to the color of a USMCWR dress uniform and WAC officer chocolate dress uniform.

post-5775-0-98665800-1434828904.jpg

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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This looks like a totally different color in the natural light. It looks like a lighter color. Let me do some more looking thru my books.

 

....Kat

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The cut of cap is consistent with female garrison caps, but the color does not match any Marine uniform cloth that I have. It is more of a slate/green like the male WWII Navy Aviation Green dress uniform.

 

Now that I see it in the natural light, I see what you are talking about. It is amazing how much of a difference natural light makes to the color.

 

I looked thru my book, Dressed for Duty. On page 445, it shows a Navy "flight nurse aviation green garrison cap (female style)." Below the female version of the cap it shows the male version "as above, but in the style worn by men".

 

The book talks about how this aviation green was probably introduced in 1945. It also talks about the Aviation Green styles being worn by 1950. I don't know for sure but I believe this is a late WWII or early Korean War Navy Flight Nurse cap. I will look for more references to this flight nurse cap discussed in my Dressed for Duty book.

 

As a point of reference, Knox also made NNC caps.

 

....Kat

 

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Quest Master

Wow! Cool! Navy Nurse Corps aviation flight hat, neat! Please post more info and pictures when you find them. Thanks Kat!

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Quest Master

I found this picture on the internet while doing some searching on this topic. The picture was labeled "1948 Navy Nurse Flight Dress Uniform". Although the color of the vintage photo is very much off, is this the uniform cover that I may have, and discussed in this thread?

post-5775-0-20378500-1434900504.jpg

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Quest Master

Although the garrison cap is not shown on the page, but it is discussed, the version of the Navy Nurse Corps aviation green uniform shown here:

http://www.blitzkriegbaby.de/nnc/nnc3ba.htm

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Quest Master

Listed as NAS Honolulu base, 1945.

Slate or green?

post-5775-0-16624700-1434901405.jpg

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Quest Master

Listed as NAS Honolulu base, 1945.

Slate or green?

post-5775-0-08350300-1434901457.jpg

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Quest Master

I'm just adding all of the Navy Nurse Flight uniform pictures I can find for reference in this thread.

Listed as NAS Honolulu base, 1945. C-54 (Navy R4D).

Slate or green?

post-5775-0-21591800-1434901537.jpg

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
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Listed as NAS Honolulu base, 1945.

Slate or green?

 

This dress is shown on page 275 in the book "Women for Victory" which was published by the same person who runs the Blitzkrieg website.

 

This is the slate gray uniform which was authorized in the spring of 1944. Also, if you look closely at the overseas cap, it does not look like yours. I believe your style came out post WWII or very late in WWII. The caps in these pictures appears to be the male styled cap. This is from the Blitzkrieg website:

 

"Unlike the banana shaped female garrison caps of other service women's organizations, the Navy Nurse's garrison cap had a straight cut like the garrison caps for men, but with the back crown of the cap higher than the front."

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Quest Master

Cool, thanks! :)

Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
1945 GMC DUKW, 1942 Ford GPW, 1944 Willys MB, 1944 Clark CA-1 Dozer, 1943 Studebaker T-24 Weasel, 1942 Harley WLA, 1944 Cushman 53 Scooter, 1942 Willys MBT, 1944 Columbia F-92L Bicycle, 1943 Huffman G-519 Bicycle, B-29 42-24791 "The Big Time Operator" Nose Section, B-29 Superfortress tails (Two), 1944 Navy SNJ-5B, 1943 Fleet PT-26, 1943 Pratt-Read LNE-1 Cockpit, CG-4A Cockpit (Two), CG-15A Cockpit, 1944 C-47A Cockpit, 1943 C-45F Cockpit, P-61 Nose, 1944 German 7,5cm Pak 40, 1940 German 10,5cm LfH18, 1944 German 2cm Flak 38, 1932 Japanese Type 92 70mm Infantry Gun and 1934 French 25mm Hotchkiss.
http://www.questmasters.us

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