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Hello all, I am a former owner of what I thought was a real Singer 1911A1. I bought it from a friend/dealer. I had it for over 10 years and finally brought it to a gun show to get some opinions on it. I was told it was not real. I reference it in some books and found out that in fact it was a fake. I called the person who sold it to me and he refused to give me my money back. I decided to sell it as a replica and sold it for alot less than I paid for it. As you can see by the pics it was set up as a Arsenal rebuild by RIA and was parkerized. I'm wondering if anyone has ever seen a faked one like this before? post-158759-0-73495700-1433386442.jpg

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Sorry to hear! Its tough to get your money back after 10 years.

Thanks. I paid $2300 and sold it for $900. The so-called friend/dealer said he was retired and was on a fixed income so he couldn't give he my money back. Plus he had the gall to say I had made money on other guns he had sold me. I am having trouble posting other pics of the gun and this is my last post of the day until tomorrow since I'm a new member.

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I would like to see more photos of this gun -- there's not enough details for us to see what was done to do it, or what it may have started life as.

 

Sorry to hear you got ripped . This is obviously a risk you take when you buy a high end pistol/militaria item without actually knowing anything about it and putting it in storage for 10 years. I can see concerns even at first glance from the rather poor quality photo, I guess this dealer is no longer in business for good reason.

 

Regards,

-Steve

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Thanks. I paid $2300 and sold it for $900. The so-called friend/dealer said he was retired and was on a fixed income so he couldn't give he my money back. Plus he had the gall to say I had made money on other guns he had sold me. I am having trouble posting other pics of the gun and this is my last post of the day until tomorrow since I'm a new member.

I would have thought something suspect when it was $2300...a true Singer...can bring $50,000 to $150,000 up...only 500 were produced.

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Singers can be a minefield

 

I wouldnt call it a fake but a rebuild

 

But looking at it being marked RIA is a red flag as its a mark for a rebuild.Also first off the lower has a flat mainspring housing and a 1911A1 should have a swelled or "arched" housing.Probably replaced during the rebuild.As I understand it Singer didnt use outside sources for parts and produced everything in house even the mags.Inspection proof should be JKC located below the slide lock on the left side.

 

Serial numbers began with the S prefix and serial numbers ranged from S 800001 to S 800500.Yours appears to have the S

 

There are other subtlies as the hammer,sites,etc.Barrel should have been Du Lite black oxide blueing as well.

 

there is a firing proof P on the frame and slide that are said to be identical.The P on the slide has the top of the "P" toward the slide and is opposite to other manufacturers in that regard.

 

Finnish was the high polish Du-Lite black oxide blueing.One source I have states the Singer was the onlypolished and blued 1911A1

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Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

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You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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I wouldnt call it a fake but a rebuild

 

Hi doyler,

 

It's a fake rebuild. The gun was never an original Singer.

 

I don't think it has any collector value except to a shooter looking for a replica of a Singer rebuild.

 

I would expect a legitimate arsenal rebuilt Singer to go for at least 8-10k if one came along.

 

Cheers,

-Steve

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My Father in law worked in the factory and owned a couple and traded them off as if they were insignificant. Later in life when he found out what he had done he regretted getting rid of them and told storries of how many of them were discarded for cosmetic blemishes. Yikes.

 

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Always looking for uniquely marked helmets, WWI and WWII American Field Service items, WWII and earlier USMC items and named or numbered medals and medal groups.


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I would like to see more photos of this gun -- there's not enough details for us to see what was done to do it, or what it may have started life as.

 

Sorry to hear you got ripped . This is obviously a risk you take when you buy a high end pistol/militaria item without actually knowing anything about it and putting it in storage for 10 years. I can see concerns even at first glance from the rather poor quality photo, I guess this dealer is no longer in business for good reason.

 

Regards,

-Steve

 

Thanks Steve

 

Just going by one picture.Hope he can post some others

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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I too, would like to see a photo of the other side.

 

The side you posted is suspect.... the NO. before the serial number should be an upper case letter N followed by an underscored small case letter o.

 

The grips do not appear to be SINGER grips... there should be no reinforcing rings around the screw holes.

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Thanks for the Picture as this shows the font of the S prefix serial number and No marking.

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Also notice the classic Singer blue on the slide, with the muzzle being a different shade than the rear of the slide. If I remember correctly even when arsenal rebuilt this shows probably due to heat treat of slide. I would think the asking price was a tip off also, the last one I handled in the late 70's was over $5k the..

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SINGER ONLY MADE 500 45'S. WHEN EVER YOU COME ACCROSS A REAR ITEM, ANY REAR ITEM-- FIRST HAVE IT CHECKED OUT OR GET ALL THE INFO YOU CAN. YEARS DOWN THE ROAD THAT REAR PURCHASE CAN BE A NIGHTMARE.

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I believe all the markings on that first pistol are pantographed. They are clearly not roll marked. There is absolutely nothing about it that conforms to a Singer. Sorry for your loss.

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Hi everyone. Thanks for all the comments. When I bought the gun from a friend in the late 90's, I didn't question its authenicity because I had bought many, many firearms from this person and they all were legit. I truely believe he knew it wasn't real but thought I would never try to sell it and find out its a fake. I sold it around 5 years ago. I agree with the comments posted here and do your homework when buying a rare firearm.post-158759-0-74259800-1433514082.jpg

post-158759-0-82761700-1433513361.jpg

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the general thought is that most if not all went to the air corps. I have heard this going back years ago so it just may be true.

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I would like to see more photos of this gun -- there's not enough details for us to see what was done to do it, or what it may have started life as.

 

Sorry to hear you got ripped . This is obviously a risk you take when you buy a high end pistol/militaria item without actually knowing anything about it and putting it in storage for 10 years. I can see concerns even at first glance from the rather poor quality photo, I guess this dealer is no longer in business for good reason.

 

Regards,

-Steve

 

Is the color not right? Is that what you were thinking from the photo? It does not look dark enough to me.

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Singers can be a minefield

 

I wouldnt call it a fake but a rebuild

 

But looking at it being marked RIA is a red flag as its a mark for a rebuild.Also first off the lower has a flat mainspring housing and a 1911A1 should have a swelled or "arched" housing.Probably replaced during the rebuild.As I understand it Singer didnt use outside sources for parts and produced everything in house even the mags.Inspection proof should be JKC located below the slide lock on the left side.

 

Serial numbers began with the S prefix and serial numbers ranged from S 800001 to S 800500.Yours appears to have the S

 

There are other subtlies as the hammer,sites,etc.Barrel should have been Du Lite black oxide blueing as well.

 

there is a firing proof P on the frame and slide that are said to be identical.The P on the slide has the top of the "P" toward the slide and is opposite to other manufacturers in that regard.

 

Finnish was the high polish Du-Lite black oxide blueing.One source I have states the Singer was the onlypolished and blued 1911A1

 

The JKC is cut a lot courser than any ww2 I have seen. Obviously different letter stamp.

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Is the color not right? Is that what you were thinking from the photo? It does not look dark enough to me.

 

Nothing is right. The gun is a total fake, with an altered serial number. Someone stripped down parts and pantographed fake singer markings onto them. There is nothing remotely desirable about the gun at this point and it may be illegal to own (if I understand correctly).

 

WWIIBuff1945: It sucks you got ripped off, it's strange the ATF let you sell the gun with altered serial number...

 

A tough pill to swallow but I guess you learned why it's important to do your homework. I'm not sure what additional info you want at this point if the gun is long gone?

 

Regards,

-Steve

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