Is this a 1905-1913 rating?

[evets]

I know it's pre-WWII, but I do not know much about USN uniforms. The photo looks crooked, but that's how the rating was made! The eagle is a brown-ish, and the chevrons and medical symbol are a tan velour-like material with red edge stitching. The rating was sewn on by machine. It's one of the more interesting ratings I've seen, as in, it sure has a lot of character!

 

The insignia is still on the white jumper (the jumper has a pocket on left chest, no kerchief loop, simple cuffs, and plain white flap). The jumper has a name (two names, actually) stenciled on the interior bottom seam in several places.

 

What do y'all think about it?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[sigsaye]

The rating badge is pre 1913 and excessively faded. The eagle should be blue and the chevrons and cross would be red wool. The main thing is that the rates with red chevrons were only worn on the dress white jumpers with the blue collars and blue cuffs. So, it would seam that at some time this rating badge was added to this jumper while NOT in U.S. Naval service. Perhaps added by a girl friend to make a muddy blouse

[evets]

ahhh...interesting! Hadn't thought of that possibility. It seems like a later top to me than circa 1913, but as I don't know much about USN stuff I wasn't sure. I found it with a Vietnam era uniform (of a US Army colonel that was a WWII vet) that had the same last name as the one stamped on the jumper, so I figured it was his father's. Thanks!

[evets]

Or perhaps it's a "middy" and not a "jumper"? (Hem is turned up so as to see the stenciled name/s)

 

[sigsaye]

Or perhaps it's a "middy" and not a "jumper"? (Hem is turned up so as to see the stenciled name/s). You have a WW2 "Era" undress white jumper with a pre 1913 Dress white rating badge that is excessively faded/ washed out. It should not be on this jumper. And, would not be on this jumper in USN service. So, it was added some time later in life. The names indicate that it was owned by two different Sailors. This is also common. A uniform item is lost/abandoned by its original owner and aquired by Someone else. Both are very nice pieces. They do not belong together, which, sadly you see often too.

 

100_3166.JPG

[evets]

Excellent, thanks for the information, sigsaye!

 

It's weird (to me) that someone would do such a thing, but reading other threads in this section I see it was a somewhat common occurrence particularly with USN uniforms. I got this via a picker who just got it at an estate auction, and she had other uniforms from the same family but they were post-WWII Army National Guard and I didn't get them (well, I got some combat boots but that's it).

[navyman]

The rating badge is pre 1913 and excessively faded. The eagle should be blue and the chevrons and cross would be red wool. The main thing is that the rates with red chevrons were only worn on the dress white jumpers with the blue collars and blue cuffs. So, it would seam that at some time this rating badge was added to this jumper while NOT in U.S. Naval service. Perhaps added by a girl friend to make a muddy blouse

I have a early example on undress whites too, so it may of happen even though not regulation.

[Nilram]

Could this PO2 be a Revenue Cutter Service "Bayman", as referenced in "Stacey" page 99.

[Justin B.]

I have a early example on undress whites too, so it may of happen even though not regulation.

I thought it was regulation? In 1897 the regs say "All petty officers are to wear on the outer garment a rating badge," in 1905 "The rating badge shall be worn on [...] the overshirt, and the dress and undress jumpers

(white) of other petty officers."

 

Member Coastie posted a great old picture with undress whites a few years back, check out the first class giving someone the stink-eye:

 

 

[David Minton]

Could this PO2 be a Revenue Cutter Service "Bayman", as referenced in "Stacey" page 99.

 

No, this looks like a worn out Navy PhM. Revenue cutter rates had white chevrons on top of red ones.

 

There is a thread with a number of samples:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/15704-revenue-cutter-service-pre-coast-guard-ranks-and-rates/

 

Here is an example (not mine):

 

 

 

 

[evets]

Thanks everyone! I too initially thought it was a Revenue Cutter rate based on a photo from the above forum post/link:

 

Here's an interesting blurb about the fading of dye during that period:

"Often misrepresented as 'Turkey' red and colorfast, synthetic home dyes for cotton (such as this one from an 1895 Diamond Dye book) promptly faded to beige."

(from: http://hartcottagequilts.com/his3.htm)