Eisenstadt wing

[cwnorma]

Yes, the bullion wire used to make the wing was made in France but the actual wing was probably made for Hertzberg Jewelers by one of several American firms in the northeast who specialized in making embroidered military insignia during WW1.

 

During WW1 the flow of French made bullion embroidery wire sent to the USA was hardly constrained which was not the case during WW2 when the supply of French exports came to a halt after the country was overtaken by German in 1940.

Most assuredly this is so.

 

So the question remains of the manufacture of the embroidery, if not the embroidery wires proper.

 

So generally, if I may be so bold, we collectors tend to "bin" WW1 era embroidered wings into "US made" and "European-made". This is almost certainly a collectors convenience as there remains some uncertainty. Additionally, within the European-made category, there is a sub-set we have labeled French-made. Generally speaking, collectors seem to label wings with three diagonal rows of "horizontal" feathers as "French-made." For example:

On the other hand, we tend to label wings that have fanned feathering with a distinct shoulder area "American-made." Such as these:

So the question of the validity of this distinction--specifically, US-made v/s French-made--as it applies to wings configured as above remains.

 

Moreover, the large military and society goods manufacturers (Horstmanns, MC Lilley, etc) were in a position to dominate the US market. So is it logical to suppose that the types of wings they embroidered for their wholesale trade would dominate? I believe that a survey of most collections would show this so-called "US-made" style to indeed be the most common type encountered. Could this "US-made" type then actually be more properly labeled "MC Lilley/Horstmann-type" or something similar?

 

Hertzberg, like Haltom, Eisenstadt and other national- and regional-jewelers were primarily in the manufacturing and diamond trades. Wing badges were no doubt only a small side market. Considering the stylistic differences, Is it reasonable to assume that they had existing European contacts and may therfore have sourced their embroidered wings wholesale directly from the world-renowned master embroiderers of France? Could Herzberg have done this to differentiate their "premium" product from those produced domestically? Those that were readily available locally at their competitors; Frank Brothers', Dunham's or Capurro's?

 

Another question that comes to mind is just how wings were produced/ordered/delivered in the wholesale trade? Large specialty houses such as M.C. Lilly certainly had all the required manufacturing capability to make the entire wing (i.e. embroidery, backplate, & findings). On the other hand, a manufacturing jeweler such as Hertzberg could have performed the work of creating a backplate/pin assembly in house (even if they did not have the expertise in the bullion work). While smaller firms that specialized only in bullion work may not have been able to produce the pin backs. Cliff's wing, with its bevo-woven label indicates that Hertzberg at least had enough trade in textile-type goods to endure the expense of having labels made up.

 

Finally, maybe we (or perhaps it is only I) put too much stock in the idea that the distinction between the two styles of wing expressed above are meaningful at all?

 

I apologize for the speculative nature of this post but consider this a fascinating subject. As always, I appreciate your thoughts.

 

Chris

[k bandow]

Amazing how this thread took off! I will get some better quality images of the bullion wing for you guys a little later. The weather has been crummy, so I'll wait for the sun to come back out. I was noticing, after I had just gotten the jacket, how similar the bullion wing was to the one on my jacket made in Paris. Certainly based on the French pattern, no doubt. This forum is the best! You truly can learn a lot just from one little post. Thank you all for your contributions!

[B-17Guy]

For purposes of the discussion, here is a bullion French made wing from my collection.

 

John

[B-17Guy]

Back

[Mr.Jerry]

Great wing and grouping Karl!

You are building up quite a collection.

 

(Remind me next time you are in to show you my WW1 Aero Sqdrn. Footlockers)

[kbandow]

Great wing and grouping Karl!

You are building up quite a collection.

 

(Remind me next time you are in to show you my WW1 Aero Sqdrn. Footlockers)

Definitely will, Jerry! I will be looking to either make up a footlocker for the other grouping I have or just find a nice original USAS officer's footlocker to put the stuff in.

[k bandow]

I hope this is a better shot of the wing on the Lieutenant Bond tunic

[k bandow]

And here is the one on my Paris made tunic, to Lieutenant William V. Lovell

[pfrost]

I think Chris raises some good points.

 

If I had to quibble about anyting in this disucssion is that I am of the strong opinion that most bullion wings were not actually hand embroidered, but were in fact machine made by some of the larger textile and embroidery companies (ie the North east US, and overseas in Britain and France). The patterns of laying down and stitching the bullion thread was controlled by special punched cards that were used on these large industrial looms and embroidery machines to produce a variety of bullion work. Furthermore, I suspect that these items were made for wholesale procurement to any number of retail uniform supply companies (similar to what is seen by Luxenberg in WWII). I think it entirely possible (as Chris mentions) that French made bullion wing insignia could have been sold to US firms and vis a versa.

 

Some place, I have a photo of a US Aerosquadron pilots on the ship in transit to France. You can see that they are wearing a variety of bullion wings (the quality isn't that great), but some do look very much like "French-made" wing patterns before they, in fact, reached France. Not conclusive, I know, but...

 

Patrick

[CliffP]

Leading up to WW1 punch cards were used by a few textile firms to make clothing and a few other things but not for making embroidered wing badges.

 

Manufacturers of wings usually employed a good number of well trained women who took great pride in their embroidery skills. They would cut stripes of bullion into short lengths, which were then picked up on the point of a thread needle. The bullion was then drawn through the base fabric and tied on the back of it, leaving the exposed bullion on the front surface to form the design of a wing. This is not the case today when most embroidered insignia is produced by machine.

 

With regard to European manufactures selling American style wings here in the United States during World War 1. I've either acquired or seen a good number of embroidered wings and uniforms that were attributed to American pilots who never went overseas. In every case, the design of the wings was distinctively and/or noticeably different to the American style wings made by firms specializing in such work in France, England, Belgium or Italy. I've also never come across anything in any book or magazine printed during WW1 that would even suggest or give me reason to suspect that any European manufacturer went to the expense, not to mention the war time risk, of sending any civilian representatives to the US for the purpose of trying merchants to buying insignia made overseas. After all, companies such as Horstmann, Walter Rieb, Schwab, Lilly and Meyer (just to name a few) controlled the American market. And lets not forget that strategically, there was a World War going on with German Subs patrolling the Atlantic constantly looking for merchant ships to torpedo.

 

In closing, below is a nice photo of four members of the 94th Aero Squadron standing on the deck of a ship homeward bound for the US after the war. Patrick would this be the photo you were referring to earlier? After looking at it I believe that each man is wearing a French embroidered American pilot wing badge.

 

Cliff

[pfrost]

Hi Cliff,

 

No that isn't the picture I am talking about. I'll try to look through my collection and see if I can find it and post it later.

 

I do think we will have to agree to disagree about the machine made bullion wings.

[CliffP]

Hi Cliff,

 

I do think we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Patrick,

 

That is what real friends do. . . agree to disagree.

 

Clliff