Jump to content

INFO REQ: Appropriate Insignia for Ambulance Drivers


 Share

Recommended Posts

cutiger83

I searched on here and did a google search but haven't found the answer to my question.

 

What kind of collar insignia would a WWI ambulance driver have worn? Would they have worn an enlisted medical insignia? Would they have worn the transportation corps insignia?

 

Also, were women ambulance drivers in WWI?

 

Thanks in advance for any help....Kat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

cutiger83

Note; I have found where other countries had women ambulance drivers in WWI but I am not sure about American women....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too Much WW1 Militaria

Kat,

 

It could be medical, could be the "T" for train. I have enlisted medical groups with both. There weren't any female Ambulance drivers, at least not in the AEF that I'm aware of. I think the American Field Service drivers were all male too.

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kat,

 

US Army ambulance drivers would have worn the medical disk. While, to the best of my knowledge,tThere were no women driving an Army ambulance, it is very possible that they would have driven a Red Cross or one of the other NGO ambulances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too Much WW1 Militaria

Beast,

 

I have a complete 79th Division group to a medic (Tunic, painted helmet, and discharge) and the tunic has a train disc on it. Got the group directly from the widow. I thought the disc was odd, but that's what he wore. That's why I threw the train in there! That's the great thing about WW1 collecting, it's so all over the map!

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beast,

 

I have a complete 79th Division group to a medic (Tunic, painted helmet, and discharge) and the tunic has a train disc on it. Got the group directly from the widow. I thought the disc was odd, but that's what he wore. That's why I threw the train in there! That's the great thing about WW1 collecting, it's so all over the map!

 

John

John,

 

That's pretty cool. Even if he was assigned to the Sanitary Train, I would have thought he would still wear the medical insignia. Your absolutely right about WWI uniforms; never say never!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note; I have found where other countries had women ambulance drivers in WWI but I am not sure about American women....

As far as I have seen in my research, there were no women ambulance drivers with the AEF nor earlier with the American Field Service, Red Cross or Norton-Harjes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too Much WW1 Militaria

Bugme,

 

I've never found any either. Would like to find a $100 Hello Girl group though! LOL

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

cutiger83

Bugme,

 

I've never found any either.

 

John

 

I don't have the book "Gentlemen Volunteers: The Story of the American Ambulance Drivers in the First World War" but it has one chapter that looks like it discusses women who drove an ambulance.

 

Chapter 8 is titled "Some Female Drivers and Other Noteworthy Volunteers".

 

Does anyone have this book to look in this chapter?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Gentlemen-Volunteers-American-Ambulance-Drivers/dp/1611450993#reader_B00E258KE2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

world war I nerd

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that medical collar discs were worn by ambulance company personnel who were attached to hospitals or other medical organizations such as a division's sanitary train, each of which had four ambulance companies.

 

Division ambulance companies generally transported wounded Doughboys from the division first aid posts just behind the lines, to regimental and ambulance dressing stations further to the rear, and from there to a division field hospital. Even though the men were not trained as corpsmen or medics, on occasion, the driver's were called upon to act as stretcher bearers and sometimes assisted not with the treatment, but with the care of the wounded.

 

AEF Armies and Corps also had independent ambulance companies that were sent to any hot spot at the front. When evacuated from a division field hospital, wounded Doughboys were usually transported to the evacuation hospitals, further down the line, by an ambulance from an Army or Corps ambulance company. These drivers were, well ... just drivers or delivery men, who for the most part, moved the injured men from one hospital to another.

 

Evacuation and base hospitals also had their own ambulance companies to transport patients to other hospitals, hospital trains and hospital ships.

 

In the AEF, ambulance personnel were not trained to treat the wounded they carried. Their job was primarily to transport them (after being treated by a qualified officer or enlisted man of the Medical Department) from one point to another as quickly, safely and painlessly as possible.

 

I'm reasonably sure that the branch collar disc represented some level of pre-war or on the job training within that branch. Therefore, a medical collar disc reflected that the soldier originated from or was trained at one of the stateside Medical Department training camps (I think there were two specifically for ambulance companies) or had passed through some sort of AEF first aid school. Wearing a medical disc would indicate that the soldier had some rudimentary training or knowledge of basic first aid.

 

The men wearing the 'T' collar discs, may have been worn by men with no medical training who were culled from the ranks of the division or a depot brigade. They likely ended up filling a slot in a division train or ambulance company just because they happened have worked on a ranch or was a mechanic in civil life and were therefore thought to be good with horse and mule drawn or motorized transport.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

cutiger83

Working on my website, here are a couple of quick pics of that group.

 

Nice group. I admit that I don't know much about WWI items. What on here tells you that he was an ambulance driver? I didn't see anything in the paperwork.

 

...Kat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too Much WW1 Militaria

Kat,

 

That's what his widow told me. Given that he was a miner by vocation, I didn't figure him for a medic or orderly. I've had this group since 1965, and corresponded with his widow until her death. So, I'm going by what she told me.

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

world war I nerd

It just dawned on me that not too long ago I read that the 'T' disc was worn by the ammunition and supply trains. The engineer disc was worn by the engineer train, and the medical disc was worn by the sanitary train. I don't recall if the HQ train wore the 'HQ' or 'T' disc.

 

That guy was probably transferred from the 313th Supply or Ammunition train into one of the ambulance companies of the 313th Sanitary Train and never bothered to change his collar disc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have the book "Gentlemen Volunteers: The Story of the American Ambulance Drivers in the First World War" but it has one chapter that looks like it discusses women who drove an ambulance.

 

Chapter 8 is titled "Some Female Drivers and Other Noteworthy Volunteers".

 

Does anyone have this book to look in this chapter?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Gentlemen-Volunteers-American-Ambulance-Drivers/dp/1611450993#reader_B00E258KE2

Kat,

 

I believe I still have a copy. I can't look it up tonight, but will try and get to it tomorrow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that medical collar discs were worn by ambulance company personnel who were attached to hospitals or other medical organizations such as a division's sanitary train, each of which had four ambulance companies.

 

Division ambulance companies generally transported wounded Doughboys from the division first aid posts just behind the lines, to regimental and ambulance dressing stations further to the rear, and from there to a division field hospital. Even though the men were not trained as corpsmen or medics, on occasion, the driver's were called upon to act as stretcher bearers and sometimes assisted not with the treatment, but with the care of the wounded.

 

AEF Armies and Corps also had independent ambulance companies that were sent to any hot spot at the front. When evacuated from a division field hospital, wounded Doughboys were usually transported to the evacuation hospitals, further down the line, by an ambulance from an Army or Corps ambulance company. These drivers were, well ... just drivers or delivery men, who for the most part, moved the injured men from one hospital to another.

 

Evacuation and base hospitals also had their own ambulance companies to transport patients to other hospitals, hospital trains and hospital ships.

 

In the AEF, ambulance personnel were not trained to treat the wounded they carried. Their job was primarily to transport them (after being treated by a qualified officer or enlisted man of the Medical Department) from one point to another as quickly, safely and painlessly as possible.

 

I'm reasonably sure that the branch collar disc represented some level of pre-war or on the job training within that branch. Therefore, a medical collar disc reflected that the soldier originated from or was trained at one of the stateside Medical Department training camps (I think there were two specifically for ambulance companies) or had passed through some sort of AEF first aid school. Wearing a medical disc would indicate that the soldier had some rudimentary training or knowledge of basic first aid.

 

The men wearing the 'T' collar discs, may have been worn by men with no medical training who were culled from the ranks of the division or a depot brigade. They likely ended up filling a slot in a division train or ambulance company just because they happened have worked on a ranch or was a mechanic in civil life and were therefore thought to be good with horse and mule drawn or motorized transport.

WWI Nerd, I believe all enlistedmen assigned to a medical unit, would wear the caduceus. Granted, I base this on limited observation of photos and uniforms of non-medical personnel assigned to medical units. For example, I have a cook's group that was assigned to a US AAS section that wears the rank of cook and has the medical collar disk. It is posted here:

 

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/226895-the-purdue-ambulance-section-598/?hl=purdue

 

However, I haven't seen anything official to back this up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

cutiger83

Kat,

 

I believe I still have a copy. I can't look it up tonight, but will try and get to it tomorrow.

 

That would be wonderful! Thank you so very much....Kat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too Much WW1 Militaria

Figure it's like a lot of things in collecting. We'll never know why so and so did such and such. Heck, my dad's WW2 Ike has the WW2 VM top left, and the PH/SS bottom row! I asked him about it, and all he said was "I didn't care, all I wanted was out!" I left it alone, it's still the way it was when he took it off in '45.

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

world war I nerd

Erick,

 

You're absolutely correct. All members of a medical unit were technically required to wear the medical collar disc or device. Although I didn't make it clear in my second post (No. 18), it supposed to clarify what I said in the first one (No.15).

 

But like John said in the above post, when it comes to WW I just about anything goes! I recently came across a period photo showing a WW I Doughboy with a single war service chevron sewn onto his lower left sleeve sideways!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too Much WW1 Militaria

Yep, some of the combinations I've seen over the years have been wild, and if they hadn't been for sale at $5 a pop at flea markets, I'd of screamed fake! The good thing was for me, when I started, about the only thin faked in WW1 was aviation and wings. Then again, at shows, you had to ask for WW1/2 stuff, it was all considered "surplus junk". "Real" collectors collected no later than Civil War. Man, that's changed!

 

And nerd is correct, I had a tunic with the red discharge chevron on the right sleeve! Was part of an id'ed group too!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I don't have the book "Gentlemen Volunteers: The Story of the American Ambulance Drivers in the First World War" but it has one chapter that looks like it discusses women who drove an ambulance.

 

Chapter 8 is titled "Some Female Drivers and Other Noteworthy Volunteers".

 

Does anyone have this book to look in this chapter?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Gentlemen-Volunteers-American-Ambulance-Drivers/dp/1611450993#reader_B00E258KE2

 

Kat, I looked through my copy and in this chapter Hansen discusses the women who drove for American volunteer units. One of these units, the American Fund for French Wounded (AFFW) had a corps of driver, all of whom were women. However it appears that their duties were primarily the transportation of supplies and doctors. He references a book by Amy Bradley, one of these drivers, titled In Back of the Front in France, which was based on her letters.

 

According to Hansen, the Victorian attitudes for women still prevailed. One example of the attitudes even by other women was given by Esther Lovejoy who went to inspect an ARC canteen and she described her driver as a "brave little girl and as pretty as a picture."

 

One brief reference to American doing medical evacuation work may be found with the American FIeld Service. Hansen quotes a citation in a 1917 copy of the AFS Bulletin, that references Women's Section Y.Y.U. 2 as performing corps d'Armee evacuation to S.S.U. 711. However that's it, no further mention in the Bulletin of Y.Y.U. 2 or any other female unit. And they don't appear in Smucker's history either.

 

Another that may provide greater detail are the letters of Mary Dexter whose mother decided to publish her letters home. Dexter was with the American Women's War Relief Hospital. She initially drove supplies, but later drove an ambulance eventually being sent in 1918to Compiegne very near the trenches.

 

I would recommend picking up a copy of Hansen's book for the bibliography if nothing else. This may help lead you to a better answer of the American women's participation in the war. I do have to stress American, as the British VAD and other organizations had female drivers who transported wounded. As a matter of fact Hansen states that the British Women were more accepted than American women.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...