Lee Ragan Posted June 7, 2015 Share #26 Posted June 7, 2015 Ref. post #17, flyboy 53's comments. Clark Gable would not ever have been an aircraft commander, no matter what his rank. An Aircraft commander is in all cases a pilot and usually the man in the left seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted June 7, 2015 Share #27 Posted June 7, 2015 Ref. post #17, flyboy 53's comments. Clark Gable would not ever have been an aircraft commander, no matter what his rank. An Aircraft commander is in all cases a pilot and usually the man in the left seat. In the military, the aircraft commander is always the pilot sitting in the left front seat, even when the fellow sitting to his right out ranks him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOKIEMAN Posted June 7, 2015 Share #28 Posted June 7, 2015 will m. You may be right, the aircraft is an A-20, possibly converted for photo use. There was one more photo in the group, see below. I assumed it was a bomber because of the "bomb" mission marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvage Sailor Posted June 7, 2015 Share #29 Posted June 7, 2015 I think some of the confusion has to do with how the training process worked during WWII. In general, the majority of aviation cadets would have gone through 3 levels of flight training, basic, primary and advanced flight schools. I believe (but could be wrong) that aviation cadets were considered enlisted men. While going through basic and primary flight schools, they would have recieved training in things like arial gunnery and could have then become qualified to wear the gunner or aircrew wing. Once they finished advanced flight school and qualified for their pilot wings, they would have worn those. Cadets who washed out of flight school or chose to pursue other avenues and went to the navigation or bombarier schools would wear those wings. Not all pilots were comissioned as 2nd Lts after completing the various schools. Some were made flight officers (equal to a warrent officer). An old pilot once told me that in his class they divided it up--1/2 got LT bars athe other half flight officer insignia. A pilot wing would, of course, wear his pilot wings, but it is possible that during the course of his training during either basic or primary flight school, he would have qualified for the aircrew or gunner wings. Bingo My Father in law enlisted in the Army with some college under his belt, competing to become a pilot. At the time, the USAAC, required diplomas so he was sent to Infantry training in the Mojave Desert. When the regulations were loosened, he was then transferred to the Air Corps and again applied for pilot training, failing the stringent the eyesight tests. He was designated as flight crew and went to Gunnery school acquiring aircrew wings. Then, the ground forces, utilizing their infinite wisdom, transferred him to ASTP training to become a Combat Engineer Officer. In 1944, when asked if he wanted to try the eyesight tests again, he passed and was sent through the Primary schools. Like many fledgling pilots, he froze at the controls durning a spin and the instructor washed him out. The inevitable question was posed - Back to the Infantry? (ASTP had been disbanded and many of his classmates were MIA/KIA/POW in the 106th Division) Bombardier or Navigator? Thinking about what he knew as aircrew already, he chose Bombardier, knowing he could doze on the flights to and fro whereas the Navigator had to stay alert whenever they were in the air. He said that during his training the Bombardiers were the ones who could move around the aircraft and they often hung out with the gunners during training flights (this was all in the States). As a Bombardier cadet, he wore his Aircrew wings and upon graduation received his new wings - and as pfrost stated, being promoted not to 2nd Lieutenant, but to Flight Officer. After training in B-10's, B-25's, B-24's, B-17's he was on a B-29 crew waiting for overseas movement orders when the Hiroshima bomb was dropped. Wrapping up the story, he told me he "fought the battle of Texas" one flour sack at a time..... Photo: His graduation wings, Bombardier Class 45 14 B which graduated at San Angelo Army Air Field, San Angelo, Texas His enlisted dogtags and his nicer wings are with another family member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted June 7, 2015 Share #30 Posted June 7, 2015 Battle of Texas... .one flower sack at a time! I had heard something very similar from a B-24 vet on another forum years ago. This guy said the pilot on his crew was married and he would "borrow" a sack of flower before they did the practice runs and take it home to her to supplement their war rations. He said the wife was a pretty good baker and she would send a few loaves of bread that they would share. Those are nice wings your father in law has. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will m. Posted June 7, 2015 Share #31 Posted June 7, 2015 Cookieman, I agree....probably an A-20 adapted to the needs of the photo unit...........thanks for additional shot, really fine images!!!! will m. You may be right, the aircraft is an A-20, possibly converted for photo use. There was one more photo in the group, see below. I assumed it was a bomber because of the "bomb" mission marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy53 Posted June 8, 2015 Share #32 Posted June 8, 2015 I know a B-29 gunner who was assigned to New Mexico during the war and earned his aircrew wing permanently flying sorties over the Gulf of Mexico in training...and then the war ended. Regarding Clark Gable. I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksome Posted July 17, 2015 Share #33 Posted July 17, 2015 I had an uncle that flew with the same unit and group in England, "Ramblin Recces" ,strange I just stumbled on this post I think that it can be said that at least one mission in the AAF led to commissioned officers being awarded and wearing the Aircrew Wing - Aerial Photographers. Some years ago, I obtained a group of war time photos belonging to Lieutenant R.W. Neely, 9th Air Force. He may have been assigned to the 33rd Photo Recon Sq, 363rd Photo Recon Gp, 9th AF. The first photo depicts him painting a mission mark on a B-25. The second picture is a studio portrait of him wearing his Aircrew Wings and two ribbon bars - Air Medal & EAME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monsoon Posted July 18, 2015 Share #34 Posted July 18, 2015 I don't know about back in WW2, but nowdays? No way is a pilot going to wear standard aircrew or nav wings once he was a pilot. My friend has all three. He only wears his pilot wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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