Patchcollector Posted November 17, 2014 #34 Posted November 17, 2014 9 Image was upside down so I flipped it
Patchcollector Posted November 17, 2014 #36 Posted November 17, 2014 That one has the correct look... Thanks for the quick confirmation!
LuftStalg1 Posted November 17, 2014 #37 Posted November 17, 2014 It's funny with these in that you DON'T want the maker mark to be perfect, that is when you got problems.
Patchcollector Posted November 17, 2014 #38 Posted November 17, 2014 It's funny with these in that you DON'T want the maker mark to be perfect, that is when you got problems. Yes.Some time back I bought one that turned out to be a copy and just like you stated,the hallmark on it was real clean and crisp,which in my ignorance I thought was correct!
Patchcollector Posted November 17, 2014 #39 Posted November 17, 2014 I've been wanting to add an A&C Wing to my collection,but kept getting beat out at the auctions.While browsing eBay I came across this and seeing only one bidder I initially figured it was another fake.But upon closer inspection,and armed with knowledge that I have gleaned from the Forum Members here,I noticed that the "tells" that are associated with these Wings were present,so I bid on it thinking I would probably get outbid again.Imagine my surprise when nobody else bid and I won the auction!It's not the prettiest example I've seen,kinda beat up a bit,but for 51 bucks I'm happy to finally be able to add one to my collection.
mghcal Posted November 17, 2014 #40 Posted November 17, 2014 Looks just right to me. I was also watching this one and can't believe you got it for a third of what I paid for mine lol. Congrats you got a steal on a great wing!
MikeK Posted November 17, 2014 #41 Posted November 17, 2014 A good one that has all the tells I look for - great addition! Regards Mike
Patchcollector Posted November 17, 2014 #42 Posted November 17, 2014 Thanks fellows for the comments and compliments.I was shocked(in a good way )to get it at that price.That's why I put it up here on the forum so quickly.I felt in my gut that the Wing was OK,but the lack of bidders left that tiny bit of doubt so I posted it for everyone to eyeball and confirm it was "good".I appreciate all the help I've received from the Wing Forum Members,you are a great bunch of guys.
BROBS Posted November 17, 2014 #43 Posted November 17, 2014 you got it for that because I missed the end of the auction! nice wing.. -Brian
rustywings Posted November 17, 2014 #44 Posted November 17, 2014 Very nice! Your example has all the minor imperfections you what to see in an authentic Angus & Coote badge...
mtnman Posted April 15, 2015 #46 Posted April 15, 2015 Please take NOTE GENTLEMEN, this is a COUNTERFEIT BADGE being sold right now on a particular auction site, likely trying to capitalize on the attention a particular good A&C badge got yesterday in its sale. On the actual Angus and Coote wing, there are going to be several asymmetrical deviations from straight lines and various imperfections which mark the authentic wing badge, which the fakes are bereft of in their absolute linear perfection indicative of the computerized human-free heartless badges just stamped out without the touch and feel of the artisan's humanity put into the mold, which makes the badge both valuable and beautiful to both the airman and the collector. I am working on putting together information, from information I have gathered and pictures on the forum from our intrepid collector community, to do another wing authentication post like the Air Corps Ferrying Command authentication post I did over a year ago. I hope this will be a tool which will help once and for all, to begin the process of cleansing the collecting community of these tools of deceit and theft and violence to the neophyte. It seemed to me that the numbers of these badges reached a high pitch I think in the 2012-2013 span and the collecting community was replete with the efforts of those who, for the standard they have set above the regarding, in charity, of one's neighbor as oneself, proceeded to theft in large scale. Some of these we encounter are going to be sold with the same ignorance of their spurious nature with which they were purchased; But many are going to be outright attempts to ameliorate the mistake they made in buying a fake wing and then there are those who have caches of these to trickle into circulation. Take the advice of an ol' crusty Wingman who has taught me much, alongside others who, if it weren't for the grace in their hearts and their didactic and benevolent attitude toward those coming up behind them to take the standard of aviation wing collecting, I would be the one probably selling or buying this badge, oblivious to what I had; This one particular crusty 'ol Wingman, very early in my collecting, gave me this little aphorism which we ALL must use as a boundary to fatuity and mercurial haste.... Caveat Emptor "Buyer Beware" Please add to this post if you wish, for reference of good and bad badges of A&C.
mtnman Posted April 17, 2015 #48 Posted April 17, 2015 Ok Gentleman Collectors, I am going to point TWO of the details which CANNOT BE REPLICATED by the thieves who intend economic violence upon the community of collectors and will give opportunity for those who own Angus and Coote wings to confirm their authenticity I am not going to reveal all aspects of a good Angus and Coote wing, you will do this naturally after you get an idea of what to look for. Angus and Coote was one of the most creative wing makers of World War II, whose design combines the sharp angles and lines of which are indicative of strength and combines this with the gentle curvatures of the fletching within the boundaries of those strong lines. The lines run along the top edge of the wings rising to 2 bold and protruding rounded vertices which immediately create a slightly acute angle as the lower arm of the angle heads down and away from the shield and then another curvature on each side away from the acute heading of the arm and in directly toward the shield with a pronounced curve which creates a very handsome vision of strength, especially with the 2 rounded, muscular shoulders which make up the apex of the rise from the wingtips. The shield on the Angus and Coote wing is excellent in design and a beauty to look at in the way it conforms in aesthetic symmetry with the wings design. The base the shield has a pronounced "V" shape to it, with the pallets, convex upon the pale, conforming in length to the V pattern of the base of the shield and the base of the chief. Within the chief are MANY FESS (horizontal lines), which we will discuss. The rear of the wing gives an opposite concave and convex pattern to the front and in the top of the shield or escutcheon, in the rear of the chief, is the Maker's Mark with many a fess framing and surrounding the Maker's Mark. The pin clasp is an almost perfect "?" Without the ".". The pin itself is bent in a V-shaped touching the back of the wing and running under the hinge rising vertically and then at a right angle over to the clasp. Now let's get to some pictures that will get you started in identifying the fakes. Bob Schwartz has created and maintained one a quite comprehensive library of many of the wings which collectors have found joy in seeking for almost a century. Without his concerted and diligent efforts, there would be much more ignorance as to the breadth of wings out there to collect from the beginning of aviation through World War II's end. Thank you Bob for taking the responsibility upon yourself to educate so many and to give a venue for those who have worked so hard and given up much to take stewardship over these tiny monuments to history. I will be using Bob's Angus and Coote pilot wing because the images give me ability to clarify the 2 points at which I want to start everyone seeing the truth behind the authentic Angus and Coote wing. ANGUS AND COOTE WING CONFIRMATION POINT #1 - The wings created by Angus and Coote can be authenticated by looking into a very close up picture of the chief of the shield. On the counterfeit wings you will see perfect lines horizontally crossing the chief. On the actual Angus and Coote wing, you will see lines that are not perfect at all but run horizontally at angles and even have the line split and ends crossing ends. This is the wonderful and most excellent aspect of having a handmade mold by which the wings were die stamped, there are going to be human errors especially when you have a war going on and expedience is the most important variable. Artisans are going to do their best but there are going to be slight variations from what a computer would otherwise blankly and blandly and without any humanity, fill-in as a linear equation creating a straight line every time without any variation, to create the mold through a computer-driven metal chasing machine. I have circled the chief below so take a good look at the lines within the chief and if you memorize these perfectly imperfect patterns, you won't have any problem identifying of good Angus and Coote wing.
mtnman Posted April 17, 2015 #49 Posted April 17, 2015 ANGUS AND COOTE WING CONFIRMATION POINT #2 - The reverse of the chief of the shield has the Maker's Mark on it. The Maker's Mark on the counterfeit wings is linear and perfectly typeset with perfect horizontal lines passing through and behind the lettering. The "&" on the counterfeit wings is vertically set to perfection. I have chosen the "&" as one aspect of the authentic wing's Maker's Mark which stands out from the counterfeits. The "&" on the TRUE Angus and Coote wings is tilted toward the Dexter wing or the wing on the right-hand side from the wing's perspective facing forward. Now, with this tip you will be able to discern other aspects of the Maker's Mark I will leave to you. That's as far as I want to go in revealing aspects of the authentic Angus and Coote wing design. As you look at the wing you will see other aspects when you compare them to the counterfeit wing I will show below in the post after this one.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now