Jump to content

USMC Saipan layout with my first P42


FSBE
 Share

Recommended Posts

Here's my latest gig. I just got my first P42 in the mail. Looks like it's maybe named to F. Parkins? The he lent needs replacement since its a swivel bake Schlueter, so if anyone wants to trade for a saltier Fixed bail with a cover let me know. The pack is 1st Marine Divisuon Id'd to Paul Alongi in Suicide Charlie who I think was a Cape Gloucester veteran and a Peleliu veteran. Thanks for looking!

 

John

 

post-153324-0-67671700-1429188364.jpg

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great display....looks good with everything brown side out too!...im usually more of a fan of the green side but man this is looking good like that!..mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks gents!

 

Mike I believe brown side is the only side :)

 

Looks like the P42 might be something worn by a hospital apprentice in the 19th Marines, however I'm not sure. The 19th was on Bougainville where these jackets saw action...

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks gents!

 

Mike I believe brown side is the only side :)

 

Looks like the P42 might be something worn by a hospital apprentice in the 19th Marines, however I'm not sure. The 19th was on Bougainville where these jackets saw action...

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Thanks gents!

 

Mike I believe brown side is the only side :)

 

Well, they certainly didn't use the "brown side out" on Bougainville.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name=FSBE" post="1897776" timestamp="1429244712]

 

Thanks gents!

 

Mike I believe brown side is the only side :)

 

Well, they certainly didn't use the "brown side out" on Bougainville.

post-153324-0-77613400-1429325602.jpg

Paramarines on Bougainville, brown side out helmet cover on the first Marine in line....

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seriously? The first Marine in line has the sun shining down directly on him, the bright light caused the helmet cover to appear overexposed and it is impossible to tell from that black and white photo what side is turned out. Do you know anything about the old Speed Graphic cameras that were used to take these photos during WWII, specifically aperture settings, shutter speed and depth of field? Look at the reflection spot on the first Marine's nose, there was bright light available (sun) from the upper left of the photo shining down on the Marines. Look at the top of the third Marine's helmet cover and the light spot on top. In order to balance the photo, depending on the film speed (light sensitivity), a large aperture setting would be used to allow enough available light to expose the picture properly and show some detail in the shadow areas. The Marines were moving also so a faster shutter speed would have been used to stop the action causing the photographer to choose a large aperture setting, otherwise the picture would have been blurred. Do a Google search on the relationship between shutter speed and aperture settings on manual cameras before you make a decision on the color of a cloth helmet cover in a black and white period photo. I am not staying that the "brown side out" was never used in the jungle, but you cannot tell conclusively from that photo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I figured since you couldn't take a joke, I'd prove you wrong. The pattern on the helmet is much different than the green side as you can tell in the photo. There's 3 different shades on his Helmet cover that are widely spaced out as opposed to a wide variety of shades and shapes that are close together on the jackets. It's not the obviois white looking bazkground, it's the pattern.

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know much about camera settings but i do know a little about frogskin helmet covers and i agree with FSBE as the brownside covers have very distinct widely spaced shapes.... that first marine has a brown side out cover on....mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guess I can't say for certain what side the cover is or not but would offer a question - Why would a marine wear a brown side camo helmet cover in the middle of a jungle? Keep in mind this photo is of Bougainville - If you look at photos of the beach at Bougainville it was a very short area of sand and you are right into the jungle - not like Tarawa or Iwo Jima where the islands were not dominated by vegetation and were mostly if not all beach. Ok, so at the very least its likely this guy, IF he is wearing the brown side out, perhaps wore it that way for the landing and would likely change it soon. I don't think it is evidence that brown side covers were worn in jungles. It makes no sense to.

 

Either way, nice display, thank you for posting. :)

 

Very best,

 

Bill K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well he could be wearing it because jungles are pretty muddy. Like it was discussed in the helmet section a while back, but so.e guys wore their camo covers green side out because others said that they thought the brown side would stand out more since it's brighter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An duc -

 

I can't really agree with your assertion because as you yourself say the brown side was considerably lighter than the green side - there are large areas of almost white material - that would stick out in brown, muddy ground. I might suggest the green side would still, in mud, offer more of a camouflage advantage.

 

Again, I am not saying one way or the other that the cover depicted above is brown or green side - But, I am asserting that logic would suggest that IF it is the brown side this marine would discover pretty quickly that it stuck out in the jungle and likely would switch to the green side asap.

 

Very best,

 

Bill K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are a couple of "non-period" ;) shots which I think illustrate what GI is saying.

A Helmet Cover cluster; all Covers are NOS- notice the one at lower right, compared to the others:

post-3226-0-71991200-1429492675.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The lower right Cover above is a "paleface" made of 2 odd dye lots of material (below, compared to a more "normal-shade" Cover- again, both are mint), therefore having a very light look.

Looking closely at a larger reproduction of the Bougainville pic above, the tops of the Pots on the other Paras appear to "glow" as well due to the tropical sun.

So, looking closely at the man at the head of the column and comparing this with a nearby tan-side piece of fabric, I would vote for a "greens-out"

Cover in this photo.

 

Just my $ .02...not saying that's exactly the case in the pic, but just some good probabilities.

 

post-3226-0-79659100-1429493374.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know much about camera settings but i do know a little about frogskin helmet covers and i agree with FSBE as the brownside covers have very distinct widely spaced shapes.... that first marine has a brown side out cover on....mike

 

FSBE and sgdorango,

 

I am well aware of the differences (3 color vs. 4 color) on the brown and green sides of the camouflage helmet covers. The light green spots on the green-side are missing on the brown-side camo scheme making the spots appear wider apart. The fact that you admittedly don't know much about camera setting demonstrates why you don't understand what I am trying to explain. Overexposure (blown-out details) could make the details of the light brown and light green spots on the green-side of the camouflage pattern disappear, causing the darker spots on the green-side to appear more widely spaced, as you point out. A simple Google image search on "Overexposure" or "Blown Out" terms in photography will explain what I am trying to say.

 

If you want to believe that the first Marine is wearing the cover brown-side out, that is your prerogative. I maintain that you can't conclusively tell from that black and white photograph because of the loss of detail. So as far as making your case of "proving me wrong", I don't believe you have accomplished that.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...