Marsden Matting question... what did it look like new?

[mpguy80/08]

All of the PSP I've been exposed to was always natural oiled steel. Of course this was a more modern version of it. WWII PSP was made from steel with a high Manganese content (I imagine that the recipe hasn't changed much) so it would have been corrosion resistant naturally and wouldn't need to be painted. Keep in mind that painting the PSP would also increase it's weight. It wouldn't make much difference to a single sheet but when you are transporting tons and tons of the material, the weight of the paint becomes a factor.

[BROBS]

I also feel like paint would be slick as all get-out.

 

-Brian

[RustyCanteen]

I also feel like paint would be slick as all get-out.

 

-Brian

 

The only thing the book (which I will work on scanning; running low on time) mentions makes it slick is rain. You have to remember that it had holes in the the sheeting through which the base material would generally work into. So you generally had another surface helping your brake traction. Another thing too, is that it was ok to let grass grow into it (talk about slick!!) because it helped camouflage it.

 

I can't find any definitive documentation on the factory finish, but it was supposed to be painted at some point because the repair units were specifically equipped to paint it (after straightening it) by April 1944. It may even be (warning, complete supposition here) that the paint units were supposed to paint it because it was rusty, i.e. as a protective barrier. Until the factory specs are found (and the original spec sheet the Army accepted) it is tough to know what it really came from the factory as.

 

What we know thanks to period documentation is that is was painted after repair. That is better than a guess at least.

 

For now, I would suggest locating some NOS 1944-45 spring clips (which were probably given a phosphate coating) which were used to lock the panels together. They may or may not have matched the panels. The images I have seen indicate that they were not the same color. However, if no one likes the thought of paint at this time the spring clips would at least give some idea of a plausible alternative finish to paint.

 

I probably won't be able to get everything posted until Sunday, so hang on. I would say it is interesting, but not definitive. It just adds to the discussion. I think this is the first 3 page thread we've ever had on PSP.

 

RC

[BROBS]

RC I absolutely agree..

without better evidence I don't know if we can know for sure. Honestly I can't believe some of the information we've lost to time already.

 

Had you posted this thread a few years earlier I could have asked my grandfather who was a Seabee in WW2 and they used Marsden Matting everywhere they went.

He was a Metalsmith 2/c so he worked with and welded the stuff together quite a bit.

-Brian

[willysmb44]

Honestly I can't believe some of the information we've lost to time already.

 

Exactly, which is why I posted the question to start with. It's amazing how something you think will be easy to look up turns out to be anything but, while the really off-the-wall stuff is easily out there. Once I started looking, I realized I was never going to find the stats I was looking for, but the color photos mentioned earlier at the very least give me a reasonable color to paint my brass 1/48 scale models that I have without running the risk of being totally wrong.

I bet if E/506th PIR moved just one piece of this stuff anywhere during WW2, there'd be a 5-volume set with color photos all about the stuff by now...

[Ronnie]

 

im only going to post these ones. theres quite a few pictures on it and im not going to sit here posting them all lol

 

3752a7c853198c74c9f80cd846bb4531_zpsufupnfmq.jpg P47D20-LetLtGuin-N-Africa_zpsawh7qlkv.jpg IMG_2083_zps938ab7df.jpg[/quote

 

Clearly by the first photo these mats were at one time OD. Maybe after time the paint was rubbed off but to me I clearly see olive drab on those mats.

[WW2JAKE]

 

im only going to post these ones. theres quite a few pictures on it and im not going to sit here posting them all lol

 

3752a7c853198c74c9f80cd846bb4531_zpsufupnfmq.jpgP47D20-LetLtGuin-N-Africa_zpsawh7qlkv.jpgIMG_2083_zps938ab7df.jpg[/quote

 

Clearly by the first photo these mats were at one time OD. Maybe after time the paint was rubbed off but to me I clearly see olive drab on those mats.

maybe, however i found this clip and honestly i cant tell

 

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675071666_American-aircraft_personnel-board_aircraft-takes-off_aircraft-in-flight

[General Apathy]

 

 

Interesting subject, I have lived in Normandy for the last eight years and I see loads of this stuff around, and I would say that 99% of what I see has a rusted surface, but I am talking about something that has most often been exposed to wind and rain and use for the last seventy years. What I also see here are houses and barns with rusty corrugated steel roofs, rusty now after seventy years, but would have been galvanized when given to the communes to repair war damage. ( a term that evolved from this gift of galvanized corrugated steel was ' American Thatch ', still in use today by older inhabitants to describe this type of roofing, and who had lived through that period.)

 

The photo above Shows PSP plate being used locally as flooring in a barn, question is, what date was this retrieved from water sodden ground after the Americans moved on to forward airfields closer to the battle. Even if it had been painted straight from the factory it would have seen some tough service with aircraft taking off and returning daily sometimes crash landing, plus service vehicles running across the surface to fuel, arm and service the aircraft.

 

It appears in their continued rush forward to persue the retreating forces all the PSP plate was left where it was, it was quicker and easier to work with new supplies which would be straight and flat, the old airfields including the matting eventually being turned back over to the farmers who's fields had been used.

 

Now on the flip side see the link below of a company that currently stocks and sells PSP matting, it's all bundled and bound and green painted, but that doesn't imply what was shipped during WWII .

 

http://www.calumetindustries.com/?cat=36

 

Lewis

 

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[Jim16a1]

The stuff our group got a few years back was unpainted. I'm not sure how old it was, though.

[chief_919]

I happen to know a WWII Aviation Engineer vet who laid down miles of the stuff. I will ask him next time I see him if he remembers.

[willysmb44]

At this point, I don't need conjecture (I can do that on my own), I'm looking for written info or good color photos taken before VE day showing new matting to get an idea on the factory color.

WW2JAKE's photos on page 2 of this thread are the best support I've seen so far...

[chief_919]

I saw the vet this weekend and asked- his answer was that it came both in a bare galvanized he called "bright" and in the dull oiled finish.

 

He then said he remembered that clearly because they always just used whatever stack was closest without caring what color or finish it was and and one time when it came time for the unit that was going to fly off the strip they built to take over the AAF CO pitched a fit about the mismatched planking and wanted them to rip it all up and lay it out again make it look "neat" with the different colors laid out together or in a pattern. He said his CO had 100 gallons of OD paint dropped off with a case of brushes and said if he wanted it looking neat to get his guys to work, their job was to provide a functional runway and they did so.

 

The mix isn't surprising- the War Department often approved variations from specs based on what a manufacturer was able to do- if one was set up to galvanize and the other to do an oiled finish and both worked they would just take them either way to meet demand.

[WW2JAKE]

I saw the vet this weekend and asked- his answer was that it came both in a bare galvanized he called "bright" and in the dull oiled finish.

see you guys never listen to me

[BILL THE PATCH]

I've been following this post now and found it very interesting. Maybe this will help, I know a ww2 vet who was with the 941st aviation engrs. , north Africa, Sicily, Italy. I even started a thread in spoils of war, with his German helmet. Very sharp for 93 years old. I asked him about the Matti g. He stated unequivocally it was slate gray in color but galvanized. He was there he should know. Hope this helps. Oh yeh, he also told me a funny story on how they would hire Italians to dismantle the runways when it was time move. Somehow half the matting would come up missing. Hmm.......

[doyler]

Picked up two of these this summer.No idea what color they were originally as someone has repainted them but they were pretty rusty by the looks of the under surface.They are both 61 inches long.

 

 

 

 

 

[BILL THE PATCH]

Found them in cheese land if I recall?they look brand new.

[willysmb44]

I'll be getting to painting my O scale sections soon, and I have decided to use a gun metal grey type color with some rust highlights on some portions.

 

Picked up two of these this summer.No idea what color they were originally as someone has repainted them but they were pretty rusty by the looks of the under surface.They are both 61 inches long.

 

 

2015_0818milstuff329130015.JPG

 

 

Of all the militaria shows I've been to since the 80s, I've never seen one piece of this stuff for sale. Beats me why...

[29navy]

Another picture. Not sure if it clears anything up or not. Got this from the historian at the SEABEE museum in Rhode Island. He said: We have three variations of Marsden matting here at the museum. Steel with the holes in it bent and rusted believed to be original or early WW2, Aluminum with holes in it with remnants of OD paint and Steel later variation with out holes Vietnam issue rusted but some remnants of OD paint.

 

Charlie​

 

[Mercenary25]

Here is a close up photo of the mat I took when I visited Travis AFB air museum. Hope it helps.

 

[willysmb44]

While I appreciate the efforts for photos, I think my original question has been lost.

I'm looking for hard data which shows what color the WW2-era stuff came out of the factory in.

Matting in a museum today, rusted over decades, mentions of the PSP matting used in 'Nam, suppositions, or vague 2nd (even 3rd) hand recollections of vets aren't what I'm looking for.

[BILL THE PATCH]

Would you like to speak to a vet himself? I can arrange it. Let me know

[willysmb44]

Would you like to speak to a vet himself? I can arrange it. Let me know

 

70 years after the fact, I'd rather go with something in writing or color photos showing them coming out of the factory.

I've already asked a couple of aviation engineer vets and none of them could recall specifically. Nobody's memory is that good after all that time.

Now, if someone knows of someone who worked in the factory making them, that might get some useable info.

 

[robinb]

This probably won't help, but I have 7 pieces in my driveway. 6 are all rusty, but one has OD paint on it. That one came from a surplus store in California a few years ago. The other 6 came from a different source.

[General Apathy]

 

70 years after the fact, I'd rather go with something in writing or color photos showing them coming out of the factory.

 

 

Hello Lee, my apologies that I have not helped or contributed to your desire to know what PSP plate looked like in it's original form straight from the factory, and apologies again that this post will be no further help.

 

But there has been a great deal of interest in your topic, and as there has been that interest I would just like to show this one section of plate that I found here in Normandy, I have no idea if this is experimental plate, or a first pattern and hope that it interests members to see it, as I have never seen any more pieces of it.

 

Lewis.

 

.

[willysmb44]

Wow, that is really interesting. It doesn't help with my quest, but I agree it is a very interesting item, one I'd never even heard of before just now.