doyler Posted July 21, 2008 Share #1 Posted July 21, 2008 I picked this P42 shirt up a while back.It has some odd features.It is cut in the same pattern as the standard issue P42 that was adopted.This shirt has the lowere skirt pocket on the left side opposed to the lowere right.Also no button or button hole.It is a true reversible,buttons on both sides.The buttons are the issue steel USMC raised lettering "doughnut"button.The backs of the buttons do not go all the way through the cloth as the back of button stud is covered by the cloth.The weave of the hbt cloth is the correct type.The sleeves also have the steel USMC buttons and have two button hole slots for adjustment. at first I thought it was a supply made item as I have a couple of pieces from a former PAC-Supply vet he made from original cloth.After looking in grunt gear I now tend to think it is one of the early experimental shirts used for the camo trials prior to the adoption of the standard P42 suit.On page 39 in Grunt Gear the shirt I have is shown in a official photo.Here are some pics of my shirt.What do you think?? Thanks for looking. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share #2 Posted July 21, 2008 Here is the back of the shirt.It has a rather large L-shaped repair and appears to be done a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share #3 Posted July 21, 2008 Pocket and collar detail.The sewn thread /seam shown folowing down the front is also visible in the Tulkoff photo in the book.I had to use a magnifing glass to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share #4 Posted July 21, 2008 pic of shirt reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted July 21, 2008 Lower pocket and cuff detail of reversed side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted July 21, 2008 Pics of collar and button on opening of shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted July 21, 2008 Another pic of the collar and button area.Many of the buttons show rust and a little oxidation to the interiors, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share #8 Posted July 21, 2008 Forgot to add that I did get a set of trousers with the shirt but they are in poor condition as the seat had sort of dry rotted and the cloth tends to shred. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share #9 Posted July 21, 2008 Anyone have some thoughts?? RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc-collector Posted July 21, 2008 Share #10 Posted July 21, 2008 Ron, I have original photo published in book Grunt Gear on page 39. Originally I purchased this photo because of pictured women marines in service uniforms in field together with marine in utility uniform. The photo in book is just cut from larger original image and description in book is in some details wrong. Original title is : Women Marines Learn the Art of Camouflage (MCWR Officer Candidates Class) - Book description says the photo is 1942 dated in fact the photo was taken 10-2-43 by Cpl. Ted Hayman - Book description says the photo shows one of experimental suits - I would agree with that, since on original photo is marine in camo suit identified as sniper, so it is possible that he wears trial uniform. - Book locates photo as Quantico, Virginia - original photo says it is Camp Lejeune, NC I scaned both photo sides, so you can read complete photo description. I hope it could help you. Also on original photo is more visible detail on camo coat shoulders, it seems it has some kind of loops on shoulders, trough which are placed the tree branches. JAROSLAV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share #11 Posted July 21, 2008 Thanks Jaroslav, I notices the loops in the shoulder too.I believe these to be slits made by cutting the cloth,rather a modification either done for the photo opportunity or just as a prop.If you look at the blown up pic in grunt gear the edges of the slits look a little frayed.I also noticed that both the pic and the shirt I posted have a 4 button front. On the back of the shirt I have are also a couple of buttons several inches above the bottom.I dont know if this was an attempt to be able to button the trousers to the jacket if you tucked it into the trousers or a personal modification as the buttons are not the USMC steel ones. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted July 22, 2008 Share #12 Posted July 22, 2008 Hi Ron, This variation of the P42's is rare, but I dunno if I would call them experimental. They are cut along the lines of the P41 utilities it looks like, with the exception of the extra lower pocket. This is actually the 3rd set of this particular pattern that I've seen in the past couple of years that has come directly out of a vets estate. I have a photo of another set that was a direct vet purchase, but it is too big to post here. Lemme see if I can figure out how to downsize it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted July 22, 2008 Thanks for the note Marc. My shirt only has one lower pocket and it is on the left side opposed to the right as on the standard models.Also no button.I have never seen the purpose of the button on the lower pocket.seems to me it was a time consuming addition during the manufacturing process. I dont know if it is expeimental or not.Alec Tulkoff said in the book it was/is one of eight patterns tested in the search for a suitable camo uniform.He had also included foot notes to his research.I would like to further see if the Marine Corps history Branch has any firther info on the camoflage trials. Take Care, RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted July 22, 2008 Share #14 Posted July 22, 2008 Hi I think you have got a very special shirt there!!!! I Have never seen one cut this way before . I am asking some of my ww2 USMC cammo collector friends if they have ever seen one also. Is there any chance it was factory placed wrong? Is the stitching different that the rest of the shirt , By this I am wondering if the pocket was moved by the Grunt on a personal whim. Maybee he was lefthanded? Very cool all the same all the best o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share #15 Posted July 22, 2008 Hi I think you have got a very special shirt there!!!! I Have never seen one cut this way before . I am asking some of my ww2 USMC cammo collector friends if they have ever seen one also. Is there any chance it was factory placed wrong? Is the stitching different that the rest of the shirt , By this I am wondering if the pocket was moved by the Grunt on a personal whim. Maybee he was lefthanded? Very cool all the same all the best o Thanks for the note.Appears this was made to be a left hand pocket.The reversed side is the same.Patterned much after the 1941 HBT green shirt and the Photo posted by Jaroslav is the one used in Grunt Gear on page 39.I could see a guy modifing a shirt but when more than a couple have been seen I tend to think it a production piece and there is no ghost image of a pocket on the rught side.No holes or threads. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted July 28, 2008 Share #16 Posted July 28, 2008 Hi I asked my bud about this shirt and it was new to him , this guy is hardcore WW2 USMC collector. So it looks like you have indeed a variation to the norm. Cool , thanks for sharing!!!! all the best o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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