Schnicklfritz Posted March 13, 2015 Share #1 Posted March 13, 2015 I was very happy to pick up this P41 D ring knapsack made by the Phili Depot. Been looking for a nice one for quite a while. They are quite hard to find from my experience. It came with a riveted haversack, but I had another Depot haversack that has the harder to find stitched buckles and matched the knapsack better. Love this early web gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share #2 Posted March 13, 2015 photo of the D ring Knapsack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted March 13, 2015 d rings and early flat buckles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted March 13, 2015 other side of the knapsack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted March 13, 2015 stitched buckles on the haversack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted March 13, 2015 Very happy to finally find one that some crazy person didn't put dye all over!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted March 13, 2015 this one is marked to the 1st Division. The cartridge belt and 1st aid pouch match the veg. dye used on the knapsack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted March 13, 2015 the other pack. Same veg dye, just both pieces are dirty from actual use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David D Posted March 13, 2015 Share #9 Posted March 13, 2015 That dyed gear is beautiful. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted March 13, 2015 Share #10 Posted March 13, 2015 Schnicklfritz- Congrats on finding such a nice looking early upper bag. However, I respectfully submit that you have the nomenclature of the two bags reversed. The UPPER bag with shoulder straps is the "Haversack" and the lower bag with the coupling strap is the "Knapsack". Lower riveted buckle bags--KNAPSACKS--that use the same green canvas with distinctly yellow edge trim can be found, but they tend to be rather uncommon. The use of green dye or paint on the early bags in not at all uncommon. Some years ago, the guy at What Price Glory had a batch on riveted buckle/d-ring haversacks for sale. ALL had the extra green camo blotches. That was a nice find!! Again, you have very nice early HAVERSACK. Thanks for posting the pics. Respectfully submitted, Terry ("Bagman") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chutesandskulls Posted March 13, 2015 Share #11 Posted March 13, 2015 That orange trim variant is very hard to find congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Flage Guy Posted March 14, 2015 Share #12 Posted March 14, 2015 Man, you got some nice stuff!!!! Are those both Russell Belts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wlalman11 Posted March 14, 2015 Share #13 Posted March 14, 2015 Wow those are awesome examples! I never seen the stitched buckles on the knapsacks before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share #14 Posted March 14, 2015 Schnicklfritz- Congrats on finding such a nice looking early upper bag. However, I respectfully submit that you have the nomenclature of the two bags reversed. The UPPER bag with shoulder straps is the "Haversack" and the lower bag with the coupling strap is the "Knapsack". Lower riveted buckle bags--KNAPSACKS--that use the same green canvas with distinctly yellow edge trim can be found, but they tend to be rather uncommon. The use of green dye or paint on the early bags in not at all uncommon. Some years ago, the guy at What Price Glory had a batch on riveted buckle/d-ring haversacks for sale. ALL had the extra green camo blotches. That was a nice find!! Again, you have very nice early HAVERSACK. Thanks for posting the pics. Respectfully submitted, Terry ("Bagman") Hi Terry, I would have to respectfully disagree with the above definitions. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/knapsack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haversack Did not know that about WPG. That was a good find. I hope to put together a complete 782 gear set of this early camo one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted March 14, 2015 Man, you got some nice stuff!!!! Are those both Russell Belts? Thanks for all the kinds words fellas. I love this stuff. The belts are odd balls. One side is a Russell belt and the other is a Mills belt. I've seen this on other Id'd USMC WW1 reissued belts. Never figured that one out. According to Alec Tulkoff's book, "Grunt Gear", the stitched and riveted buckle haversacks were being produced at the same time at the Depot. The Depot just didn't have the right sewing machines for the stitched examples, hence the rarity of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Flage Guy Posted March 14, 2015 Share #16 Posted March 14, 2015 Thanks for all the kinds words fellas. I love this stuff. The belts are odd balls. One side is a Russell belt and the other is a Mills belt. I've seen this on other Id'd USMC WW1 reissued belts. Never figured that one out. According to Alec Tulkoff's book, "Grunt Gear", the stitched and riveted buckle haversacks were being produced at the same time at the Depot. The Depot just didn't have the right sewing machines for the stitched examples, hence the rarity of them. I've seen that parts-mixing a good many times on early Cartridge Belts, a whole lot more than with W.W.II Belts. And in the surplus stores and flea markets, I used to see the left sides of the Boyt M.C. Belts detached by themselves. Like you said: what the heck?? I forgot about that little tidbit in "Grunt Gear" about the Packs; it makes sense, because both the riveted and stitched buckles are shown in the original Manuals for these. I have one of those Knapsacks which is identical to yours, but it's stamped "DQP 1942-1943", so I hooked it to a stitched (non-D-ring) Haversack which is stamped the same. I share your sentiment on the early 782 Gear- gotta love all them colors, orange/yellow edge binding, etc...obviously the loops on the shoulder straps are the same stuff which was used for the edge trim, but laid out flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knd643 Posted March 14, 2015 Share #17 Posted March 14, 2015 The top pack is a haversack and the bottom pack is a knapsack, not the reverse. You have a very nice d ring haversack. I have been looking for one for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share #18 Posted March 14, 2015 Thanks for all the kinds words fellas. I love this stuff. The belts are odd balls. One side is a Russell belt and the other is a Mills belt. I've seen this on other Id'd USMC WW1 reissued belts. Never figured that one out. According to Alec Tulkoff's book, "Grunt Gear", the stitched and riveted buckle haversacks were being produced at the same time at the Depot. The Depot just didn't have the right sewing machines for the stitched examples, hence the rarity of them. Opps, just looked again at the belts. They are actually compromised of all Russell parts. Looked at all my belts the last couple of days. Getting mixed up. I have a couple of other regular, named belts that have a mix of Russell and Mills parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share #19 Posted March 14, 2015 The top pack is a haversack and the bottom pack is a knapsack, not the reverse. You have a very nice d ring haversack. I have been looking for one for a while. Well, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. The terms have been flip flopped at some point with the USMC P41 pack system and misused since then in books, etc. Check Wikipedia, Google it, Bing it... put it on blueberry pancakes.... The pack that has shoulder straps is referred to as the knapsack. The pack that has a single sling is referred to as a haversack. If you look at late 1800's early 1900's USMC webgear, you'll see the bag that has one sling and sits on the hip or attached to the bottom of the cartridge belt via snap hooks is referred to as a haversack. The bag that went over the shoulders was called a blanket bag. Earlier, Civil War era and earlier definitions also call the shoulder pack a knapsack, not a haversack. The haversack being the single shoulder slung bag that sits on the hip to hold the ration issue. Haversacks have always been referenced as the single shoulder slung bag that sits on the hip and holds ration issues. The only place I have noticed that this has differed is in relation to what I believe has become a "collectorism" on WW2 USMC P41 packs. I know people have used it this way for years in relation to USMC P41 packs, but it is IMHO incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knd643 Posted March 14, 2015 Share #20 Posted March 14, 2015 In the official manual for the M1941 pack system(1942) the pack with the shoulder straps is referred to as the haversack and the bottom pack as the knapsack. It's not a collectors term used in WW2 USMC gear. Check this thread and you can see the manual. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2406-usmc-m1941-pack-system/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share #21 Posted March 14, 2015 Yes, I am aware of what the official manual calls the packs. This is incorrect. The terms are flip flopped according to definitions as used in dictionaries and also in other historical reference to similar items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usnavy1944 Posted June 29, 2015 Share #22 Posted June 29, 2015 Would you think about selling any early war packs with the rivites if so can you please email me and I will pay in a money order... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decontrol215 Posted July 11, 2015 Share #23 Posted July 11, 2015 Would you think about selling any early war packs with the rivites if so can you please email me and I will pay in a money order... This thread is worth checking out... http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/227147-offers-to-buy-in-discussion-threads/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2002 Posted July 12, 2015 Share #24 Posted July 12, 2015 While on the suject of knapsacks. I just aquired my first 42 knapsack. I have read some would use their extra belt as a sling fitted on the top of the bag and used as a kind of musnett bag. But the original strap and buckle are 1 1/2 inch the belts are 1 1/4 an the buckles do not work. Would one just shave down the brass tip and make it work? Thanks! Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin Posted July 12, 2015 Share #25 Posted July 12, 2015 Yes, I am aware of what the official manual calls the packs. This is incorrect. The terms are flip flopped according to definitions as used in dictionaries and also in other historical reference to similar items. Can you provide physical reference to the USMC M1941 pack system being referred to otherwise differing in the 1942 manual and in addition various series of Landing Party manuals? You are in a minority challenging the main stream so it is only right to present your case factually for discussion purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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