gamsdivision1944 Posted March 6, 2015 Share #1 Posted March 6, 2015 This squadron patch came with the estate of an 825th BS veteran. however, I can't find any reference that shows this being a 484th Bomb Group patch. Any help would be greatly appreciated!ThanksRick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doinworkinvans Posted March 6, 2015 Share #2 Posted March 6, 2015 I beleive this is 568th....the cat on the bomb with the cloud/water background is what is ringing a bell. However the trumpet is different. Could be an early version. But i do beleive this to be 568th BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted March 6, 2015 Share #3 Posted March 6, 2015 Funny how it's often difficult to tell if a leather WW2 squadron patch is a fake or not. But with an original such as yours, it just jumps out at you as being totally legit. Great patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamsdivision1944 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted March 6, 2015 Thanks for the replies - I searched on the 568th and looks like a totally different patch. Is this what you were thinking of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamsdivision1944 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted March 6, 2015 Kurt - Yes, a real Italian beauty! Thanks Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doinworkinvans Posted March 6, 2015 Share #6 Posted March 6, 2015 Yes that is what my mind went to ....it does look different yes, but thats all I could come up with. There were so many variations and early/late versions of patches. Just trying to get it started. Hopefully there will be a possitive ID Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamsdivision1944 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted March 6, 2015 thanks daniel! rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Watkins Posted March 6, 2015 Share #8 Posted March 6, 2015 This squadron patch came with the estate of an 825th BS veteran. however, I can't find any reference that shows this being a 484th Bomb Group patch. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks Rick Hi Rick, Looks what you have is a vintage early Disney designed patch of the 824th BombSqdn / 484th BombGp. Nice catch. Bob P.S. Note the typo in the image text. There was no 824st BombGp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamsdivision1944 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted March 6, 2015 Hi Bob - BINGO! that's it. May I ask what the reference you posted is? It is interesting that the BG website doesn't show this...but it is one of the less extensive ones. Much appreciated! Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Watkins Posted March 6, 2015 Share #10 Posted March 6, 2015 Rick, Another P.S. Attached is the emblem displayed by the 824th BombSqdn later in the war. The 824th never had an 'Approved' insignia during WWII which is the cause of much confusion for many of us today. Bob Your Disney image can be found in a book entitled 'Disney Dons Dogtags'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Watkins Posted March 6, 2015 Share #11 Posted March 6, 2015 Follow-up; I just double checked the 'Vulture' design that I posted and wanted to correct an error. This particular patch belonged to the 826th BombSqd. The 824th, 835th and 826th Bomb Squadrons used almost identical designs, the only difference was in the 'bullet' count in the MG belt. In the case of the image I posted you'll notice the count is 8-2-6. Your squadron 'bullet' count would be 8-2-4. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doinworkinvans Posted March 6, 2015 Share #12 Posted March 6, 2015 Thanks Bob - glad your knowledge is around! Glad to know we got an I.D. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamsdivision1944 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted March 6, 2015 Hi Bob - that is great info! many thanks for it! I also had no clue about the MG count representing the squadron number!!! Fantastic Thanks again! Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Watkins Posted March 6, 2015 Share #14 Posted March 6, 2015 Glad I could help guys, and once again, that's a real nice piece of early WWII/AAF history you came up with Rick. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro Posted March 6, 2015 Share #15 Posted March 6, 2015 Rick, fresh from the estate is the next best thing other than straight from the veteran himself. Why not go straight to the guys that were there and ask them what period your patch is from? Give them the veteran's name and maybe they can help pin down the exact time period your patch was used. http://www.15thaf.org/49th_BW/484th_BG/contact/contact.htm Jeffro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamsdivision1944 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share #16 Posted March 6, 2015 Hi Jeff - I tried but the contact person with the Bomb Group says he has never seen it or has any record of it Thanks Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted March 7, 2015 Share #17 Posted March 7, 2015 Great patch! JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro Posted March 7, 2015 Share #18 Posted March 7, 2015 Hi Jeff - I tried but the contact person with the Bomb Group says he has never seen it or has any record of it Thanks Rick Some of the associations contact people aren't always the best ones for the job. I'd try and keep digging. Perhaps another crew member that served with the veteran is still around. Time is running out for these vets and the history they will take with them when they are gone. Their website has all the association newsletters available for browsing. You might try looking through them for any references to your patch. I checked the B24web and they actually don't show the patch for the 825th, but do list the others including the group patch. That leads me to believe they may be aware of another patch for the 825th. You may want to send them a photo so they can add it to their site. Jeffro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Signor Posted March 7, 2015 Share #19 Posted March 7, 2015 Wow , I have been looking for a photo of this unit in"real" patch form for some time now , this is a Great find you have and a Rare one to say the least , glad it went to someone of the forum who will appreciate it's true history and value , and much thanks for posting the photo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Signor Posted March 7, 2015 Share #20 Posted March 7, 2015 By the way , it looks to be an Italian" made type seeing as the design is cut slightly into the leather , they were usually done that way in that area . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Watkins Posted March 7, 2015 Share #21 Posted March 7, 2015 Hi Jeff - I tried but the contact person with the Bomb Group says he has never seen it or has any record of it Thanks Rick Rick, What you have is what is generally referred to as a 'pre-deployment' emblem. There are literally countless examples of such early war group/squadron designs that were replaced once a unit went overseas, many of which were created by professionals such as Al Capp, Milt Caniff, Schlesinger/Warner Bros and in the case of your patch, Disney Studios. Once deployed, these early designs, when discarded, were often considered to be 'too cute', and were replaced with designs of a more sinister (manly) nature, e.g. skull & crossbones, grim reapers, etc. Establishing an exact timeline for the use of virtually any unapproved unit emblem (as in your example) generally end up with a 'best guess' on the part of historical researchers, as the official USAF policy excludes and and all group/squadron insignia that were not processed through the Heraldic Branch/O.Q.M.G for approval review and acceptance. Disney Dave (a member of this forum) may be able to help you with a 'creation' date for your patch design, and if you can get your hands on a early post-war unit history, you may luck into a timeline for the 'Vulture' image that replaced your squadrons original Disney design. If all else fails you may even try contacting Disney Worldwide and see if you get lucky there, but don't hold your breath on this one. It's a tedious process but can prove rewarding when your hunt ends up with positive results. Happy hunting, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro Posted March 7, 2015 Share #22 Posted March 7, 2015 Based on what Bob has stated above, my guess is that this dates from the first year of the unit's arrival in theatre. The patch looks like all the other Italian manufactured incised leather patches I have seen from the 15th AAF as Johnny has mentioned and if I'm not mistaken were usually produced in Corsica while on R&R. Jeffro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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