N.S. Meyer: Real vs. Reproduction, Maker marks, "Tells"

[pfrost]

I am going to change my mind, I think those are one of the later restrikes.  Sorry

[The Rooster]

Yea Im not feeling good about the backside, or the strange patina.

I didnt think they faked the gunners. Darn!

The fittings are wrong pin opens all the way and the Meyer logo is stamped not raised etc etc etc.

The patina looks like someone faked it on there.

Not natural.

[AmHistoryFan]

Hi all, I have a couple Meyer wings. After reading, studying and viewing the pictures in this thread I believe I have a restrike copy of the service pilot wing and perhaps an original glider pilot wing. I thought I’d post them on here for discussion. No harm if both are restrikes I’m just using this as an opportunity to study, handle, and learn. 
 

The reasons for believing the glider pilot could be authentic is the small sterling mark, the rough edges, and the round base on the pins. This is in contrast to the pin base that the service pilot wing has that matches those shown earlier in this thread. 

[bschwartz]

To my eye they are both restrikes. With the soft details they both appear to be cast copies.

[AmHistoryFan]

Neither of the wings have a frosted texture on the back which I believe most Meyer wings I have seen of the period have. 

[B-17Guy]

Agreed, both appear to be restrikes. 

[AmHistoryFan]

Ok, thanks for your help and insight on the Glider and Service wings above. I have one final Meyer wing that I feel could be a restrike. It is a Gunner wing that seems to have the similar large size sterling marks as the others above and also has what appears is the pin feet. What are your thoughts on this wing? 

[bschwartz]

Yes, this one is also a reproduction.

[B-17Guy]

Agreed

[Threewood]

Here is a legit Meyer letter wing. The texture and patina on the back is what you want to see.

[AmHistoryFan]

Thank you all! After handling 2 originals and 3 reproductions I believe I’m learning. 

[Phroger46]

This is a pilot wing that I'm fairly certain is a restrike, but it has several mixed characteristics of being an original based on the rest of this thread.  The sterling and the shield are both raised, and the Meyer shield is stamped backward.  The pin is not the floppy 180-degree pin and stops at 90 degrees and has the cut on the base while the pin holder does not have the extra feet.  Edges are not polished smooth. The sterling mark does have some build-up that is not metallic and has some slight scratches where it looks like the build-up was picked at. The wing is also non-magnetic.  Thoughts?

[The Rooster]

2 hours ago, Phroger46 said:

This is a pilot wing that I'm fairly certain is a restrike, but it has several mixed characteristics of being an original based on the rest of this thread.  The sterling and the shield are both raised, and the Meyer shield is stamped backward.  The pin is not the floppy 180-degree pin and stops at 90 degrees and has the cut on the base while the pin holder does not have the extra feet.  Edges are not polished smooth. The sterling mark does have some build-up that is not metallic and has some slight scratches where it looks like the build-up was picked at. The wing is also non-magnetic.  Thoughts?

Looks good to me. I like this style Meyer Pilot.

You can never tell the restrike from the front.

Its the backside that holds the clues.

You have a large raised Sterling font and a raised Meyer Crest backwards.

Dont know why but its backwards on many of the authentic Meyers.

Also the pin with the cam is correct. And finally, the backside has not been polished smooth attempting to remove

the black Lacquer type substance

that the restrikes are coated with on the backside.

This still has that frosted finish backside.

Good one and its really a nice looking pattern wing.

Nice catch!

I think it is the large shield that appeals to me on this type wing.

Meyers seem generally shied away from because of all the restrikes.

The experts can correct me if Im wrong.

But its a real one.

I would buy it priced right.

[rathbonemuseum.com]

i would say these are original WWII Meyer pilot wings.

[Phroger46]

36 minutes ago, The Rooster said:

Looks good to me. I like this style Meyer Pilot.

You can never tell the restrike from the front.

Its the backside that holds the clues.

You have a large raised Sterling font and a raised Meyer Crest backwards.

Dont know why but its backwards on many of the authentic Meyers.

Also the pin with the cam is correct. And finally, the backside has not been polished smooth attempting to remove

the black Lacquer type substance

that the restrikes are coated with on the backside.

This still has that frosted finish backside.

Good one and its really a nice looking pattern wing.

Nice catch!

I think it is the large shield that appeals to me on this type wing.

Meyers seem generally shied away from because of all the restrikes.

The experts can correct me if Im wrong.

But its a real one.

I would buy it priced right.

 

Thank you for the additional information.  I didn't consider the polishing of the backside.  This one is already in hand and will be joining my collection after I start reviewing and looking over my other Meyer wings using this thread.

[The Rooster]

There are several genuine Meyer Pilots just like yours for sale now on eBay.

Some want upwards of 125.00 bucks for theirs!

In my opinion thats a bit high. If its polished and the edges are polished rounded, and the pin is wrong,

its a clinker.

Avoid.

[Phroger46]

A couple more that have a potential.  I know on the airship wing, one of the tells is the circle on the right wing, but this one does not have it but the sterling in the center is throwing me off.  Both have the correct pin and the edges/backs are not polished.

[Phroger46]

And a couple of samples of what I believe are restrikes that have the Meyer hallmarks, but don't have the correct pins or the correct details.

[5thwingmarty]

I would say these are all restrikes, made from the real Meyer dies but well after the war for collectors.  The large fount incised sterling mark is the big red flag.  Any Meyer wing with a 180-degree opening pin is also suspect.  Many Meyer restrikes also had a dark gray finish on the back, so if that is present it is a red flag, as well as any wing that looks like the rear has been stripped or scrubbed back to bare metal like the Balloon Observer wing.

[Phroger46]

1 hour ago, 5thwingmarty said:

I would say these are all restrikes, made from the real Meyer dies but well after the war for collectors.  The large fount incised sterling mark is the big red flag.  Any Meyer wing with a 180-degree opening pin is also suspect.  Many Meyer restrikes also had a dark gray finish on the back, so it that is present it is a red flag, as well as any wing that looks like the rear has been stripped or scrubbed back to bare metal like the Balloon Observer wing.

 

I agree with two in the balloon posts for sure being restrikes and wanted to post them as examples for other collectors, but what about the Airship and Observer in the prior post?  Those both have 90 degree pins, smaller sterling marks (at least I think they are the smaller font) and do not have the typical scrubbed appearance or gray finish on the back.  The airship also doesn't have the typical ring found on the front on the right side that I was reading in another thread was typical of the restrikes.  Thanks for helping!

[bschwartz]

The observer is a restrike in my opinion. The air ship is missing some of the key features of the real Meyer wings. The smaller font is used for the sterling marks on these wings. There is also a very small series of vertical marks on the rear lower portion of the left wing (right as you look at it from the back) that is present in the real wings I've seen. If you look at the four examples of Meyer airship wings on my site: https://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/usaafairshipballoon.shtml you can see these vertical marks. They are called out in a post I did years ago when I found my Meyer airship wing. All four of the wings on my site have this mark. With Meyer wings it's never just one rule. You can't just look at the pin or the coloring or the markings, etc. You have to take a look at the wing in totality. That's why so many people avoid them. A 180 degree pin is never a good sign on a Meyer but just because it has the cammed pin is not an indicator that it's a good wing. The fakers quickly caught on that the pin was an easy tell and it's not that hard to have a cammed pin put on a bad wing. 

[Phroger46]

1 hour ago, bschwartz said:

The observer is a restrike in my opinion. The air ship is missing some of the key features of the real Meyer wings. The smaller font is used for the sterling marks on these wings. There is also a very small series of vertical marks on the rear lower portion of the left wing (right as you look at it from the back) that is present in the real wings I've seen. If you look at the four examples of Meyer airship wings on my site: https://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/usaafairshipballoon.shtml you can see these vertical marks. They are called out in a post I did years ago when I found my Meyer airship wing. All four of the wings on my site have this mark. With Meyer wings it's never just one rule. You can't just look at the pin or the coloring or the markings, etc. You have to take a look at the wing in totality. That's why so many people avoid them. A 180 degree pin is never a good sign on a Meyer but just because it has the cammed pin is not an indicator that it's a good wing. The fakers quickly caught on that the pin was an easy tell and it's not that hard to have a cammed pin put on a bad wing. 

 

Thank you for the information. I missed seeing that mark when looking at your site on my own. So, my next question is what do people do with wings when they figure out they are restrikes? I personally try to keep my collections authentic and while some people don't mind, I feel like letting these back into the wild might get another unsuspecting collector.

[Bull Moose]

You start a “box of tears” 

Something I think most of us have for our mistakes.

[Phroger46]

9 minutes ago, Bull Moose said:

You start a “box of tears” 

Something I think most of us have for our mistakes.

 

I actually have a pawn shop that will buy them for sterling and melt them down, but I'm not sure if that is acceptable practice in the community. 

[5thwingmarty]

I have used fittings off of bad wings to repair damaged good wings, but as others have said have a box of tears.  Anyone who has a bad wing and wants to sell them for scrap if free to do so.  According to a site I just checked, a 20-gram sterling wing would be worth about $17 as scrap.