gbettcher Posted February 19, 2015 Share #1 Posted February 19, 2015 I thought I'd share a few of my early Army wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share #2 Posted February 19, 2015 More Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
268th C.A. Posted February 19, 2015 Share #3 Posted February 19, 2015 Thanks for sharing! Very nice wings.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted February 19, 2015 Share #4 Posted February 19, 2015 Gbettcher, thank you for taking the time and effort to share your WWI US Air Service wings and insignia with us. You've illustrated a two-inch Pilot wing in your collection which really grabbed my attention...and I'm hoping you might be able to help me identify who made it? I have one just like it...but the hallmark on the reverse of mine is distorted and illegible. Can I trouble you to check your example and possibly share an image or two of the reverse? Mine has a British-style pin, so I assume the hallmark represents a British maker? Any help you can toss my way is greatly appreciated. Here's an image of the badge you've posted which I'm curious about? Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted February 20, 2015 Russ, I'll check it out and get back to you. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted February 20, 2015 As best I can tell it says P&CR on the left and STERLING SILVER on the right. There may be more under the solder but I cannot tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted February 20, 2015 Right side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted February 20, 2015 Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted February 20, 2015 Reverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted February 20, 2015 As I look at it again, it may be P&Co. With the o raised above the line. I don't think this is necessarily a British pin. I've seen these on US insignia also. Unless yours is different than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted February 20, 2015 Share #11 Posted February 20, 2015 Gary, thank you for your quick response and additional images of your rare two inch Pilot badge. I hope one of our fellow Forum members can fill in the blanks on our mystery hallmark. Later tonight I'll spend some time looking at old jewelry hallmark websites and see if I can find a match. I have several WWI era J.R. Gaunt hallmarked badges and insignia with these identical pin and catch assemblies on the reverse. A few U.S. based manufacturers, including Robbins Co., used similar style tubular hinges to attach their pins to the back of their badges, but I don't know of any U.S. company that used these same heavy wire-like "C" catches during WWI. I associate this type of catch with Firmin, Gaunt and Ludlow made badges...hence my belief our badges may be British made. Here's a few images of my example for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted February 20, 2015 Share #12 Posted February 20, 2015 It looks like the hallmark consists of six characters. I can't make out the first character at all? The second character on my badge looks like an "A"...and the third character may be a "P" or possibly an "F"? The fourth, fifth and sixth characters match what you have. ? A P & C o or ? A F & C o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted February 20, 2015 Russ, I believe you are correct about the large wire catch being British. I looked through lots of my wings and insignia and only found that loop on non-US items. The first is a WW2 Aircrew made in England Second is a WW1 officers collar insignia, But I thought it was French. Third is a winged globe over Signal Corps, looks British Fourth is front of the above. Fifth is a WW1 and post WW1 US insignia, the latter is a Gaunt and has a real different catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #14 Posted February 20, 2015 Sorry about the focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted February 20, 2015 Russ, Have you ever seen "Sterling Silver" spelled out like that on British insignia? Thanks much for sharing your knowledge. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted February 21, 2015 Share #16 Posted February 21, 2015 I suspect that this is a US made wing. The English were very strict on how precious metals had to be marked--as you know from the JR Gaunt pieces. Furthermore, I believe that these types of hinges and pin catches were very common in Victorian and later jewelery (US and overseas made). I would suspect that this is probly just something that this particular jeweler had on hand. Nice wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted February 21, 2015 Share #17 Posted February 21, 2015 Looking at it again, it seems to be (*?*). L. P. & CO. Well there was a George L Paine & Co that was out of Atttelboro Mass from 1909 until 1922 or so. They used the hallmark G. L P. & Co. http://www.chicagosilver.com/jmarks12.htm You can do some looking around, but it seems pretty close. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschwartz Posted February 21, 2015 Share #18 Posted February 21, 2015 Thanks for the link Patrick. Those poor bastards at Nolan & Strachan in Toronto were probably none too pleased with their hallmark around the late 1930s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share #19 Posted February 21, 2015 I had thought that the British Sterling markings were special coded hallmarks showing the city and the date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share #20 Posted February 21, 2015 BSchwartz, LOL. I had to go back to the link to see what you were referring too. Very funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted February 21, 2015 Share #21 Posted February 21, 2015 Russ, Have you ever seen "Sterling Silver" spelled out like that on British insignia? Thanks much for sharing your knowledge. Gary Gary, your right...seeing "Sterling Silver" spelled out on a British made badge is not at all in keeping with the norm...but the same might be said with American made badges. The word "Sterling" is almost commonplace on early American made aviation badges...but I've only seen the words "Sterling Silver" stamped on a couple of WWII era Orber made badges. Regarding our mystery hallmark, check out this website of British silver hallmarks: http://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/ There are numerous near-misses...and a few that seem to match up pretty well, including this one: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted February 21, 2015 Share #22 Posted February 21, 2015 I ran across Russ' website also and it appears this company did make jewelry and other items during the war. It is listed at this site (same as the one Russ found) as making matchbox holders in 1916 http://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/Birmingham-E.html#EA So far I can't find the actual name of the maker, but they did make brooches during the Great War. "W.W. 1.THE QUEENS. ROYAL WEST SURREY REGIMENT. SILVER SWEETHEART BROOCH. 30,MM NICE CONDITION. MAKERS NAME ( E.A.P & CO. ) STERLING SILVER." "WW1 Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve Signalman, 1917 Hallmarked Silver & Enamel Crossed Flags RNVR Badge Pin Brooch.A very rare First World War R.N.V.R Signalman badge, the reverse bearing Birmingham silver hallmarks for 1917 and maker's details "E.A.P & Co". Very good condition, retaining original pin fittings, no damage to the enamelWidth 37mm.Height 14mm." http://www.regimentalbrooches.com/shop.php?c=485 Hopefully this is a clue to the maker of these beautiful wings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted February 22, 2015 Share #23 Posted February 22, 2015 BEAST, I very much appreciate your involvement in this little research project. The more I examine this wing with a loop, the more I'm in agreement this E.A.P&Co hallmark matches. The correct time frame; The fact this company produced other military insignia; The visible base of the letter 'E' in the first character; The 'periods' following the first two characters; The identical pin and catch illustrated on the other listed insignia with this hallmark; And the same font used in the visible lettering is all hard to ignore. Now all we need to do is identify what "E.A.P&Co" represents? Fun Stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted February 22, 2015 Share #24 Posted February 22, 2015 Truly, this diffusion of knowledge is what keeps me coming back to the forum! Great thread guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbettcher Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share #25 Posted February 22, 2015 This is great. So to summarize, it appears this wing is WW1 British made, Birmingham manufacturer "E. A. P. & Co". Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks everyone. Now hears another I'd like opinion on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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