WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #26 Posted February 15, 2015 The shirt is correct.As stated 58th EMS was part of the 58th TFTS as was the 310th TFTS.The 310th did not have a separate EMS. so can you explain why its like this to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted February 15, 2015 Share #27 Posted February 15, 2015 When I was stationed at England AFB they would have the 23rd TFW patch on the left packet, TAC or right and SQ above right pocket, 74th, 75th, or 76th TFS.Then the 23rd EMS or CRS above the left pocket.That is a lot of patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #28 Posted February 15, 2015 When I was stationed at England AFB they would have the 23rd TFW patch on the left packet, TAC or right and SQ above right pocket, 74th, 75th, or 76th TFS.Then the 23rd EMS or CRS above the left pocket.That is a lot of patches. that makes sense! thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted February 15, 2015 Share #29 Posted February 15, 2015 When I was stationed at England AFB they would have the 23rd TFW patch on the left packet, TAC or right and SQ above right pocket, 74th, 75th, or 76th TFS.Then the 23rd EMS or CRS above the left pocket.That is a lot of patches. Your dad was assigned to the 58th EMS (58th TFTW) and 510th TFTS, working on their aircrafts.There were other TFTS's assigned to the 58th TFTW; 69th, 311th, 312th & 314th. Anybody assigned to the EMS would wear the 58th EMS patch. So he was assigned to the 310th TFTS EMS.But the 58th EMS took care of the WHOLE wing of TFTS's.does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #30 Posted February 15, 2015 Your dad was assigned to the 58th EMS (58th TFTW) and 510th TFTS, working on their aircrafts.There were other TFTS's assigned to the 58th TFTW; 69th, 311th, 312th & 314th. Anybody assigned to the EMS would wear the 58th EMS patch. So he was assigned to the 310th TFTS EMS.But the 58th EMS took care of the WHOLE wing of TFTS's.does that make sense? yupp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted February 15, 2015 Share #31 Posted February 15, 2015 yupp Sometimes AF stuff can be confusing.You don't normally see somebody assigned to two different squadrons. When I was stationed at Clark I was assigned to the USAF Regional Medical Center Clark.I wore the PACAF patch on the right pocket and RMCC patch on the left.Technically we were part of the 13th AF but never wore the 13th AF patch just PACAF.The 3rd TFW was the major Wing on base but we were not assigned to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 15, 2015 Share #32 Posted February 15, 2015 The shirt is correct.As stated 58th EMS was part of the 58th TFTS as was the 310th TFTS.The 310th did not have a separate EMS. Not in my Air Force. You can't be in two squadrons at the same time. The EMS supported the all fighter squadrons assigned to the wing. Again, per regulations during the early 80s the wing patch (58 TFTW) should be on the left pocket. Never in 26 years in fighter maintenance did I see this combo. I was in 80-06. In the early 80s maintainers were not assigned directly to fighter squadrons. There were AMBs/AMUs assigned to support a fighter squadron, but they belonged to the AGS. Some did wear the patch of the unit they were the AMB/AMU for. EMS folks never were apart of a TFS/TFTS, though they might be dedicated to a certain squadron temporarily. AGS people were in the early 90s on for a while. Again, maybe a local thing but still very out of place and against normal regs. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #33 Posted February 15, 2015 Not in my Air Force. You can't be in two squadrons at the same time. The EMS supported the all fighter squadrons assigned to the wing. Again, per regulations during the early 80s the wing patch (58 TFTW) should be on the left pocket. Never in 26 years in fighter maintenance did I see this combo. I was in 80-06. In the early 80s maintainers were not assigned to fighter squadrons. EMS folks never were, though they might be dedicated to a certain squadron temporarily. AGS people were in the early 90s on for a while. Again, maybe a local thing but still very out of place and against normal regs. Randy well it fit, idk why he would have that explanation and why my dad would have worn them both if it wasnt right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 15, 2015 Share #34 Posted February 15, 2015 Like I said, might be a local thing. Commanders were given some leeway as to what could be worn on their installation. What did your dad do? That could help figuring this out a bit. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #35 Posted February 15, 2015 Like I said, might be a local thing. Commanders were given some leeway as to what could be worn on their installation. What did your dad do? That could help figuring this out a bit. Randy he fixed equipment is all i know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 15, 2015 Share #36 Posted February 15, 2015 EMS does a lot of things. They run the munitions storage and maintenance, aircraft ground support equipment (AGE), and actual aircraft maintenance. I was in the 36 EMS, and I did Aero Repair/Crash Recovery and Transient Alert. EMS is also responsible for hourly aircraft/phased inspections. So it covers a lot. I'm thinking maybe your dad might have either been an AGE driver or if he worked the jets a phase mech dedicated to the 310 TFTS. Still, it's very strange to wear both patches and had to have been a Luke AFB thing. Please update here if you ever find out what he was doing. Who knows, I may have known him since we were in at the same time! Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #37 Posted February 15, 2015 EMS does a lot of things. They run the munitions storage and maintenance, aircraft ground support equipment (AGE), and actual aircraft maintenance. I was in the 36 EMS, and I did Aero Repair/Crash Recovery and Transient Alert. EMS is also responsible for hourly aircraft/phased inspections. So it covers a lot. I'm thinking maybe your dad might have either been an AGE driver or if he worked the jets a phase mech dedicated to the 310 TFTS. Still, it's very strange to wear both patches and had to have been a Luke AFB thing. Please update here if you ever find out what he was doing. Who knows, I may have known him since we were in at the same time! Randy there was one story where he said he was driving, but i think AEG sounds right but really all i know was he fixed things (not jets) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 15, 2015 Share #38 Posted February 15, 2015 AGE (Aerospace Ground Support) drivers delivered support equipment on the flight line to aircraft needing maintenance. They also repaired that same equipment to ensure it would work when applied to the jet. Each AMU would have a dedicated driver, but they changed frequently. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #39 Posted February 15, 2015 AGE (Aerospace Ground Support) drivers delivered support equipment on the flight line to aircraft needing maintenance. They also repaired that same equipment to ensure it would work when applied to the jet. Each AMU would have a dedicated driver, but they changed frequently. Randy sounds right to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 15, 2015 Share #40 Posted February 15, 2015 OK, like I said, please post if you get any more info. If you have his old paperwork like Enlisted Performance Reports it will have his job description in the narrative. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted February 15, 2015 Share #41 Posted February 15, 2015 Not in my Air Force. You can't be in two squadrons at the same time. The EMS supported the all fighter squadrons assigned to the wing. Again, per regulations during the early 80s the wing patch (58 TFTW) should be on the left pocket. Never in 26 years in fighter maintenance did I see this combo. I was in 80-06. In the early 80s maintainers were not assigned directly to fighter squadrons. There were AMBs/AMUs assigned to support a fighter squadron, but they belonged to the AGS. Some did wear the patch of the unit they were the AMB/AMU for. EMS folks never were apart of a TFS/TFTS, though they might be dedicated to a certain squadron temporarily. AGS people were in the early 90s on for a while. Again, maybe a local thing but still very out of place and against normal regs. Randy Well in my Air Force, 82-86, they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1 Posted February 15, 2015 Share #42 Posted February 15, 2015 This shirt is right and dates after 1980 with the subdued patches. Sergeant Light was assigned to the 58th Equipment Maintenance Squadron (310th Aircraft Maintenance Unit), 58th Tactical Training Wing, Tactical Air Command out of Luke Air Force Base Arizona. He was most likely a crew chief and worked on a piece of equipment, F-16 aircraft or munitions that belonged to the 310th Tactical Fighter Training Squadron. The 310th Tactical Fighter Training Squadron in the 1980's conducted fighter pilot training for student and instructor pilots in the F-16 Fighting Falcon and was attached to the 58th Tactical Training Wing. Equipment Maintenance Squadrons usually had five flights fabrication, maintenance, armament, munitions and aerospace ground equipment. I bet the 310th Maintenance Unit did not have their own patch and just used the 310th Tactical Fighter Training Squadron patch. The shirt could have also had another patch on it a F-16 Fighting Falcon patch. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #43 Posted February 15, 2015 This shirt is right and dates after 1980 with the subdued patches. Sergeant Light was assigned to the 58th Equipment Maintenance Squadron (310th Aircraft Maintenance Unit), 58th Tactical Training Wing, Tactical Air Command out of Luke Air Force Base Arizona. He was most likely a crew chief and worked on a piece of equipment, F-16 aircraft or munitions that belonged to the 310th Tactical Fighter Training Squadron. The 310th Tactical Fighter Training Squadron in the 1980's conducted fighter pilot training for student and instructor pilots in the F-16 Fighting Falcon and was attached to the 58th Tactical Training Wing. Equipment Maintenance Squadrons usually had five flights fabrication, maintenance, armament, munitions and aerospace ground equipment. Mark subdued patches mean 1980 forward? i think 1979 was when they switched to subdued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1 Posted February 15, 2015 Share #44 Posted February 15, 2015 I do not have the exact date. But sometime in 1980 it was mandatory to change from the blue nematapes and vivid patches on OG-107 and OG-507 Utility shirts. The OG-107 wear out date was in 1983 and the OG-507 mandatory wear out date was in October 1, 1991, except field jackets. Both OG-107 and OG-507 field jackets were phased out early 1997. So this shirt could have been worn between 1980 and 1991. this is just for the United States Air Force. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #45 Posted February 15, 2015 well my dad became an airman first class june or july 79 but his airman uniform is subdued... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1 Posted February 15, 2015 Share #46 Posted February 15, 2015 There is a phase out date and then a mandatory wear out date. Usually the phase out date is a couple of months or a year or two before the mandatory date. some units changed right away at the phase out date, some waited, all had to change at the mandatory date. between the two dates the was a mixture of uniforms. I do not know the exact date of the phase out of blue nametapes and vivid patches but the mandatory phase out for blue nametapes and vivid patches was in early 1980. So every OG-107 and OG-507 utility shirt and jacket after early 1980 had to be subdued. Hope that help. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 15, 2015 Share #47 Posted February 15, 2015 Your Air Force wasn't on the flight line. Not trying to be smart, but there's a lot of things going on here with this shirt. Per regulations, it's incorrect. I've tried to explain it above, and that's the best I can do. I worked the flight line for 26 years, not the hospital or wherever. People can believe what they want to I guess.... Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #48 Posted February 15, 2015 Your Air Force wasn't on the flight line. Not trying to be smart, but there's a lot of things going on here with this shirt. Per regulations, it's incorrect. I've tried to explain it above, and that's the best I can do. I worked the flight line for 26 years, not the hospital or wherever. People can believe what they want to I guess.... Randy so my dad who was on the flight line was wrong to have it this way? and no one said anything to him? and firefighter's explanation is wrong even though it made sense for how my dads shirt was patched? im getting alittle skeptical here buddy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 15, 2015 Share #49 Posted February 15, 2015 This shirt is right and dates after 1980 with the subdued patches. Sergeant Light was assigned to the 58th Equipment Maintenance Squadron (310th Aircraft Maintenance Unit), 58th Tactical Training Wing, Tactical Air Command out of Luke Air Force Base Arizona. He was most likely a crew chief and worked on a piece of equipment, F-16 aircraft or munitions that belonged to the 310th Tactical Fighter Training Squadron. The 310th Tactical Fighter Training Squadron in the 1980's conducted fighter pilot training for student and instructor pilots in the F-16 Fighting Falcon and was attached to the 58th Tactical Training Wing. Equipment Maintenance Squadrons usually had five flights fabrication, maintenance, armament, munitions and aerospace ground equipment. I bet the 310th Maintenance Unit did not have their own patch and just used the 310th Tactical Fighter Training Squadron patch. The shirt could have also had another patch on it a F-16 Fighting Falcon patch. Mark EMS was not part of an AMU. An AMU was a component of AGS (Aircraft Generation Sq). The 310 TFTS patch pictured was associated with the F-4, not the F-16. That patch is pictured below. The phase out date for color insignia was January 1981. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WW2JAKE Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share #50 Posted February 15, 2015 just to be clear my dad was there when the f-4 was there and now says he was part of AGE and was a driver a few times to take things he worked on to be used on the jet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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