bigkahunasix Posted February 3, 2015 Share #1 Posted February 3, 2015 Gentlemen, I am having a long distance conversation with an older Marine Artilleryman who is questioning the use/firing of artillery from landing craft and/or barges during some of the amphibious landings, specifically in the ETO. I have searched both Google and Bing images with no success, but I know they exist because of some lengthy discussions at Aberdeen on its practicality after seeing pictures of barges with M2 105mm howitzers firing from them in the museum. It was decided there that while it COULD be done that the practicality and accuracy was greatly suspect. Anyone have a photo or two tucked away that can help?? I will give full credit to the photo owner, this is just a discussion between friends not an internet slap fight. Thanks in advance. BK6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenm Posted February 3, 2015 Share #2 Posted February 3, 2015 I seem to remember something in a book somewhere about Artillery heading towards the beaches at Normandy firing at targets on the land...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandomatic Posted February 3, 2015 Share #3 Posted February 3, 2015 I my be going out on a limb, but I think I remember reading about it being done during the D-Day invasion in an impromptu manner because of the carnage at the beachhead. Pretty sure I read that in "The Longest Day", but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigkahunasix Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted February 3, 2015 I am pretty sure it was trialed at the Sicily landing and then used intentionally again on D-Day. But I have no idea where to find those pictures again. I searched last night until my eyes just gave out. Figured here would be my best bet for someone having copies or a book on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ashooter Posted February 3, 2015 Share #5 Posted February 3, 2015 I found this article about the Candians landing at Juno. http://www.junobeach.info/juno-4-14.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakkasan187 Posted February 4, 2015 Share #6 Posted February 4, 2015 If you have the book "Spearheading D-Day" American Special Units in Normandy" by Jonathan Gawne (a member here) there is a picture and a caption that specifically addresses this question. On page 22-23 there is a great picture showing a LCT with 4 105 mm howitzers pointed inland and they were used specifically to provide supporting fire to the landing beaches. The guns were chained to the deck of the boat and then upon landing they were unchained and towed off to the beaches.. I don't want to post a picture without Jonathan's permission... Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigkahunasix Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted February 4, 2015 If you have the book "Spearheading D-Day" American Special Units in Normandy" by Jonathan Gawne (a member here) there is a picture and a caption that specifically addresses this question. On page 22-23 there is a great picture showing a LCT with 4 105 mm howitzers pointed inland and they were used specifically to provide supporting fire to the landing beaches. The guns were chained to the deck of the boat and then upon landing they were unchained and towed off to the beaches.. I don't want to post a picture without Jonathan's permission... Leigh That was one of the pictures I was speaking of, some of the others showed the howitzers and even a few calliope rocket launchers on flat barges firing in support of a landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigkahunasix Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted February 4, 2015 I found this article about the Candians landing at Juno. http://www.junobeach.info/juno-4-14.htm Thanks, I found another similar report on a Royal Artillery site too. I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12thengr Posted February 4, 2015 Share #9 Posted February 4, 2015 PTO: From; 'The Jungleers'. 41st Div in WWII. My Dad's Comments; Here is Batt 'B' 205th FA Bn making like Naval gunners. Fortunately this idea was never used in real battle. I missed this operation, my section was ashore someplace. No doubt surveying part of Australia as a training exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigkahunasix Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted February 4, 2015 Great picture 12thegnr, not one of the ones I had already seen. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtpete Posted February 4, 2015 Share #11 Posted February 4, 2015 Image (210).jpg PTO: From; 'The Jungleers'. 41st Div in WWII. My Dad's Comments; Here is Batt 'B' 205th FA Bn making like Naval gunners. Fortunately this idea was never used in real battle. I missed this operation, my section was ashore someplace. No doubt surveying part of Australia as a training exercise. Great picture! looks like an Iowa class battleship. Do you have an idea which ship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kration Posted February 5, 2015 Share #12 Posted February 5, 2015 Don't forget the pics from D Day showing LCT's firing banks of Rockets inland Kration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted February 5, 2015 Share #13 Posted February 5, 2015 I'd swear I've seen photos of such a thing, but I question how practical it would be. You would have the motion of the boat to calculate into your firing solution, without the support that you would have on a naval ship for a weapon of that size. All you could do is point it in the general direction of the enemy for harassing fire rather than precision fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12thengr Posted February 5, 2015 Share #14 Posted February 5, 2015 Great picture! looks like an Iowa class battleship. Do you have an idea which ship? I believe it's the deck of an LST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvage Sailor Posted February 5, 2015 Share #15 Posted February 5, 2015 That is a LST deck. Also, Gil is absolutely right. Without the stabilizing gear inherent to Naval Gunfire Support, you're just guessing on where your shot will fall as you have no reliable azimuth reading. Long? Short? Hit a wave? In the treeline? This would only be reliable on a duck pond with no wind, a direct line of sight, and wooden ducks as targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigkahunasix Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share #16 Posted February 5, 2015 As I mentioned in the OP, while we could do it the accuracy was very suspect. In the review and discussion it was surmised that it was employed for volume of fire....not its effectiveness. I would classify it as "harassment" fire more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLegGI Posted February 5, 2015 Share #17 Posted February 5, 2015 I swear I've seen video somewhere of this occurring but for the life of me I can't find it. IIRC it was priests firing but not any towed pieces. I know this doesn't help much but its something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagmanL6 Posted February 5, 2015 Share #18 Posted February 5, 2015 I know of mortar illumination being fired off the flight deck of an LPH or LHA (can't remember the exact ship) in the '89/'90 time frame. The purpose was to assist in the search for a helicopter that went down. It was from the BLT of the MEU we replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtpete Posted February 5, 2015 Share #19 Posted February 5, 2015 Great picture! looks like an Iowa class battleship. Do you have an idea which ship? I believe it's the deck of an LST. Ahhh, I see it now. I must have had a brain spasm, why would a battleship need any howitzers aboard? I guess I forgot what armament they carried..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvage Sailor Posted February 5, 2015 Share #20 Posted February 5, 2015 I swear I've seen video somewhere of this occurring but for the life of me I can't find it. IIRC it was priests firing but not any towed pieces. I know this doesn't help much but its something. I have seen that footage of M-7's firing from either an LCT or LCM as they approach a landing. Don't recall if it was in training or actual live fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgawne Posted February 5, 2015 Share #21 Posted February 5, 2015 As I recall, they found it wasn't terribly accurate at the assault training center, but it "put more fire on the beach" so why not do it. a stray round might hit something, and the Germans would see even more fire at them- the rockets were a totally different thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharfmaster Posted February 5, 2015 Share #22 Posted February 5, 2015 Rocket firing LCIs were used in the Pacific. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvage Sailor Posted February 6, 2015 Share #23 Posted February 6, 2015 Aye, The "Elsies" and specifically those LCI's converted to LCI( R) Rocket, LCI(G) Gunboat & LCI(M) Mortar But rocket batteries firing in salvos synchronized with a ships' gyroscope and fire control gear is very different from field pieces chained to a deck firing with guesstimated data. LCI rocket firing gun boats attack the shores of Iwo Jima, Feb. 17, 1945 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFMike Posted February 7, 2015 Share #24 Posted February 7, 2015 I have seen pics of guns firing from landing craft. Think "situational" or "field expedient" better yet, insert Common Sense. Need and opportunities also come to mind. Probably not an intended nor proper use, but sometimes you got to do what works. Thankfully we have folks who are able to think and act on that level. That is what heroes is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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