Medal Pet Peeve List

[Brig]

My per peeve isn't about the medals, it's about the medal cases.

 

What do we call the navy colored cases? What do we call the WWI vintage MOH and DSC cases. What do we call the WWII vintage cases?

 

Where does the term "coffin case" fit into this discussion.

 

Can't seem to get a consensus on this discussion.

I'm sure when they were made, they were all just called 'boxes' or 'cases'

[swabbie]

My gripe is not so much about the medals as what the press uses for "awarded" -- "won" -- really?!

[firefighter]

That line of thinking shows ignorance toward the history of the award. The first "Purple Heart" was awarded by General Washington as the Badge of Military merit given for- you guessed it- Military Merit. By your logic we should take GW and his coat of arms off the medal as well.

 

Kyle

 

 

Exactly what I was thinking.

[GIKyle]

When the revived Purple Heart Medal was issued in 1932, It was awarded for both merit and wounds in action. However, not death in action.

 

On 2 Sept. 1942, the Army stopped awarding the PH for merit. After that, the PH was awarded for injuries and death caused directly by enemy action only.

 

The Navy was not authorized use until 3 Dec. 1942.

 

The original cloth Purple Heart Badge was indeed awarded for merit but to only 3 men.

 

 

W

Correct... so given the history of the medal and its criteria for award... why shouldn't it stay on there?

[firefighter]

I agree about the USAF & Army training ribbons.I think we can all assume you graduated basic training because you're wearing the uniform.

 

As far as marksman ribbons the AF is the only one that has just a ribbon, Small Arms Expert, star added for pistol. The Navy & CG have 2 ribbons/medals, one for pistol one for rifle.The Army has 3 badges & the USMC has 6, 3 rifle/ 3 pistol.

[atb]

After Desert Storm there were two boxes at the checkout of Clothing Sales. One was full of SWASM ribbons, the other was full of BSM ribbons.

 

Thus to my comment above - probably 43 of those Bronze Stars should have been MSMs. The BSM should only be earned outside the wire, not for meritorious service.

 

At the time of Desert Storm, MSM's could not be awarded in a hostile fire/combat zone. That changed not too long ago during the current conflict period. Remember, the Bronze Star Medal was a medal whose purpose from the beginning was to be given out quickly and in large numbers (like the Air Medal) for meritorious service or achievement or heroism. With the advent of the various Achievement and Commendation Medals and the change to the criteria for the Meritorious Service Medal I would think that the BSM would have increased in prestige and be awarded for combat service.

[askari]

 

 

• Why was the USAF allowed to create a disproportionately large MOH?

• Why has the suspension bar for the Army DSM been too narrow for the ribbon for over 100 years?

• Why isn’t the LOM ribbon red to match the enamel of the pendant?

• Why did anyone think hot pink was a good color for the LOM, MSM, etc.?

• What reason could the be for the USAF to make the Airman’s Medal round like a common medal when ALL the other services use a unique octagonal shape for that important award?

• Why did they do away with bars such as were on the WWI Victory Medal (and WWII Occupation Medal)? Sure would have replaced numerous redundant medals if applied to the Expeditionary Medals.

• Speaking of bars, why does the US prohibit the use of bars on the NATO Medal when all other allies and the original design use it?

• Why can’t we finally merge all the medals together so that at least the ribbons match so we can have “joint” visibility of what other services’ awards mean?

• What’s up with ribbons that have no associated medal?

• Why does the Navy have marksmanship medals rather than badges like everyone else?

• Do we really need all those ridiculous devices?

• Why can’t the Bronze Star be awarded only for combat actions (valor) and the MSM be awarded for service at that level? End the dual standard for the Bronze Star (and other medals that carry the V device). Award a medal for valor and a different one for service.

• Isn’t it finally time to kill the Army Service Ribbon? Does anyone think that stupid ribbon has any meaning whatsoever?

• If there’s a Bronze Star Medal and a Silver Star Medal, should there be a Gold Star Medal?

• I’d like to see an Overseas Service Medal (with country/area clasps).

• If the regulation length of a medal is 3.5”, why do the medal manufacturers make them shorter than that?

• Shouldn’t the overall length and diameters of medals be standardized? Some (like the LOM) are wider than their ribbon, some are too small.

• Can we please make medals of better quality, serialize the top valor medals, and make engraving standard?

• What’s the US Mint up to these days? Seems we could have them do it all, or at least the “important” ones. Outsourcing seems to have resulted in bad quality.

• All of the medals created and designed in the 1970s should be re-designed or eliminated.

• Why do we need “joint” and “defense” categories of medals? Same medal, different assignment. An MSM and a DMSM – really?

 

 

+1. Absolutely 100% concur with everything you said!

[John Conway]

What about even knowledgeable collectors referring to the medal pendant as a planchet which it once was but is no longer once it becomes a finished medal?

[JBFloyd]

When I came on active duty in 1968, the National Defense Service Medal was referred to as "Alive in '65", since that was the hardest criterion.

 

The military community doesn't have the time or cojones to truly fix the problems that exist (only some of which are listed above). If you dump the AF Training Ribbon, you'll discover a Training Ribbon constituency that will rise up in righteous indignation and accuse you of everything short of treason (and some will blur that line). As you move up the awards pyramid, the howling would get more and more deafening.

 

Perhaps a step would be to use a version of Gen Shoup's method of getting rid of swagger sticks in the Marine Corps. He sent out a message to the Corps saying, in essence, "If you need a swagger stick, you may carry one". They disappeared in a flash. A brilliant bit of psychology that needs to be replicated. Of course that would require a leader of Shoup's stature instead of the bean-counter 4-stars we have.

 

We need to cut way down on all duplicative awards, scrap the dual-purpose awards, standardize awards across DoD and make it clear that the absence of an award is not a career-killing negative. It should mean that you did your job at the high level expected, but did not exceed that level. That's where the cojones need to be issued -- somebody is signing off on these things and the clamps need to be applied with force and consistency. Those in command will have to earn their pay and make a few hard decisions.

 

We've all come to believe that our awards were hard-earned and everybody else's came up with the rations. Perhaps the ration truck carried more than everyone else's awards.

[12A54]

 

At the time of Desert Storm, MSM's could not be awarded in a hostile fire/combat zone. That changed not too long ago during the current conflict period. Remember, the Bronze Star Medal was a medal whose purpose from the beginning was to be given out quickly and in large numbers (like the Air Medal) for meritorious service or achievement or heroism. With the advent of the various Achievement and Commendation Medals and the change to the criteria for the Meritorious Service Medal I would think that the BSM would have increased in prestige and be awarded for combat service.

There is not much prestige in this:

 

Iraq Bronze Star awards (Army):

2,036 with V (3% of all BSMs awarded)

65,125 for service / achievement (97%)

 

Afghanistan Bronze Star Awards (Army):

2,459 with V (2.5% of all BSMs awarded)

99,886 for service / achievement (97.5%)

 

These service / achievement awards should have been MSMs. Then the BSM might carry some prestige rather than ridicule.

[Brig]

There is not much prestige in this:

 

Iraq Bronze Star awards (Army):

2,036 with V (3% of all BSMs awarded)

65,125 for service / achievement (97%)

 

Afghanistan Bronze Star Awards (Army):

2,459 with V (2.5% of all BSMs awarded)

99,886 for service / achievement (97.5%)

 

These service / achievement awards should have been MSMs. Then the BSM might carry some prestige rather than ridicule.

The Navy and Marine Corps have always been much more stingey with awarding BS's. Of course, you see the command level individuals get them in theater, but I can say I've only seen a few awarded to SSgt's and below, much more common to see a NAVCOM or NAM with 'V'. I've seen NAVCOM with 'V' citations that would have been Silver Stars in wars past

[Salvage Sailor]

A bit off topic perhaps.....

 

I've always felt that the National Defense Service Medal was truly a bogus 'decoration' being a medal awarded for showing up in uniform for 90 days during a hot war period, although you were never within 5000 miles of the war zone. It's not even an "I was there" campaign/theater ribbon.

 

I feel this way simply because the criteria is a slight to any active duty personnel who served during the Cold War year gaps prior to 1990. Suez Crisis, Lebanon (in the 50's), Chasing Ruskies, Iran Crisis (the birth of the Persian Gulf Yacht Club which exists to today btw), Lebanon Again (remember the New Jersey pounding Beiruit?), Chasing a new generation of Ruskies, gosh, did I skip multiple Arab Israeli dustups?, Grenada, multiple terrorist attacks (Berlin bombing, Puerto Rico, Hijackings - RIP USN Diver Robert Dean Stethem) etc, etc,

 

Many a sailor voluntarily enlisted in the Navy after 1974, and was fortunate to earn a GCM, - often his only medal - after serving a hitch or even two while serving on multiple deployments overseas.

 

I must be getting old and cantankerous, but there ya go.....

 

NDSM Eligibility Dates

Korean War - June 27, 1950 – July 27, 1954

Vietnam War - January 1, 1961 – August 14, 1974

Persian Gulf War - August 2, 1990 – November 30, 1995

September 11, 2001 – Present Day

 

[firefighter]

There is not much prestige in this:

 

Iraq Bronze Star awards (Army):

2,036 with V (3% of all BSMs awarded)

65,125 for service / achievement (97%)

 

Afghanistan Bronze Star Awards (Army):

2,459 with V (2.5% of all BSMs awarded)

99,886 for service / achievement (97.5%)

 

These service / achievement awards should have been MSMs. Then the BSM might carry some prestige rather than ridicule.

 

 

Do your BSM awards include those given with the CIB?

[atb]

 

 

Do your BSM awards include those given with the CIB?

 

The award of the BSM to those who earned a CIB or CMB was only for WW2 recipients.

[12A54]

Shall we start with the other side now? Framed unit citation awards pet peeve - these are the bowling trophies of the awards system. Everyone gets them, even if you weren't there when they were earned. They simply add to the clutter and the proliferation of these things now ensures that every unit regardless of size, misssion, or real contribution will get one flavor or another of them. And every member of that unit gets it regardless of their role. Is there a single Soldier on active duty not wearing one or more of these on their uniform? Sure, if you're surrounded at Bastogne (and were actually there) it's a worthy collective award. But if your Division deployed and did its job, I'm not convinced that it warrants a framed ribbon for life.

[jmpmstr]

I have to agree with most of the expressions vented here. I am particularly turned off and have been since I was a young buck, about the awards system and criteria. I have always thought the Navy/USMC got it right with their level of scrutiny of awards and approving them. That said, I have been on the receiving end of receiving awards that were BS and being disapproved for appropriate awards because of personal disagreements with the approving authorities. I have tried to refuse an award for an exercise while on the Division staff of the 82d Airborne Division, and my boss flat out ordered me to accept the award. It was a ridiculous award of an AAM that was just doing my job. I also had 2 awards in Desert Storm downgraded simply because I was the guy on the wrong side of the recommender for not executing some illegal directives he gave me. The fact that we have both issues as well as the proliferation of "thanks for coming" awards breeds the situation we are in today.

 

I would also say that these are a marketing and recruiting tool as well. For the young civilians interested in the service for whatever the reason, you can't deny that a soldier, sailor, airman or Marine with a chest full of colorful fruit salad doesn't get the juices flowing about how bad a$$ you can look. How bad a$$ you can be is entirely another matter and remains to be seen. But it gets people looking, we eat with out eyes first right? I agree with Jeff, the leaders of today are products of the system, they have lost that aspect of leading that is the hard right vice the easy left, for various reasons, and none of them good or legit. Just like the kids in so many youth sports today, everyone plays, everyone gets a trophy, and no one plays to win anymore....don't want to hurt any feelings or leave someone out, their fragile id might be bruised

 

I have to say my most valued award is the original set of Senior Paratrooper wings my battalion commander and 30 of my best friends slammed into my chest. They are the the most important thing I earned and were the hardest to earn....it is the only award that I I earned entirely on my own and of my own knowledge, skill, and ability.

 

My $.02

[firefighter]

I have to say the thing that always got me was the COMMENDATION medal as a good-bye award.I never received one from my 1st base but when I left Clark I was given one, after my separation.I also have to agree with the NDSM.But I think that goes back to the American Defense medal.

 

Now the Coast Guard wants it's own medals, CG Cross.

[Salvage Sailor]

Indeed,

 

Prior to 1980 or so, we would get either 'Letters of Appreciation' or 'Letters of Commendation' from our CO's - not pretty little rainbow ribbons. Now when I see these young sailors flourished up with a GCM plus five or six 'gedunk' awards I just roll my eyes and move on.

 

The one I do look for is the Sea Service Deployment Ribbon - Those are the sailors with the fleet.....haze grey and underway

[patches]

I have to say the thing that always got me was the COMMENDATION medal as a good-bye award.I never received one from my 1st base but when I left Clark I was given one, after my separation.I also have to agree with the NDSM.But I think that goes back to the American Defense medal.

 

Now the Coast Guard wants it's own medals, CG Cross.

That was something I first heard about towards the mid 90s FF, like 93-94. A new Co-worker at the job I had turned out to be a Ex 11B who was in during late-ish 80s early-ish 90s, either serving his whole time in the 1/3 Inf (Old Guard) in DC, or was one of his duty assignments in his 4 years of service. Having found out I was in once, we struck up conversations from time to time. He told me he had two ARCOMs, one awarded oddly for being the member of a winng team during an inter-unit/platoon Caisson race, and the other awarded at the time of his ETS. This last one struck me as really odd, I said what about the Good Conduct Medal? He said yeah he got one too.

[firefighter]

Indeed,

 

Prior to 1980 or so, we would get either 'Letters of Appreciation' or 'Letters of Commendation' from our CO's - not pretty little rainbow ribbons. Now when I see these young sailors flourished up with a GCM plus five or six 'gedunk' awards I just roll my eyes and move on.

 

The one I do look for is the Sea Service Deployment Ribbon - Those are the sailors with the fleet.....haze grey and underway

 

 

Don't bring up the SEA DEPLOYMENT ribbon.I did that once, said Isn't that what the Navy is suppose to do?.Started a SH*T storm.

 

PATCHES I to have heard of medals being awarded for intramural events.I guess it goes back to school and those 'participation' awards, everybody gets a ribbon.

[Salvage Sailor]

Must have been from the Airdales and landlubber/Seabee types......

 

Let's see how they stand up to back to back Typhoons in the China Sea

[firefighter]

Must have been from the Airdales and landlubber/Seabee types......

 

Let's see how they stand up to back to back Typhoons in the China Sea

 

Typhoons were fun on land can't imagine being on a ship durn one.

[patches]

 

 

Don't bring up the SEA DEPLOYMENT ribbon.I did that once, said Isn't that what the Navy is suppose to do?.Started a SH*T storm.

 

PATCHES I to have heard of medals being awarded for intramural events.I guess it goes back to school and those 'participation' awards, everybody gets a ribbon.

That's what it amounted to, an intramural event, pulling by hand a caisson in a race,an ARCOM for that, why not give the winning team leader a V device But seriously, I have to admit I was appalled when he told me this, especially the ETS ARCOM kiss, I was like HUH!

 

I like quite a few members where in when the two ribbons were instituted for the first time, the Army Service and Overseas Ribbons, looking back, the Army Service seems rather a joke even then in 1982, maybe too the Overseas, like you stay in the Army long enough of course your going to serve one time or another in an Overseas post, to me the only prestigious indicator of overseas service will of course be the wartime Overseas Bars, everything else is just a normal matter of course assignment away in an overseas post.

[Brig]

The overseas service ribbons have become nothing more than a way of identifying deployment dodgers in the Navy and Marine Corps. Of course, members of non-deployable units get caught in the crossfire of this method, despite it being beyond their control. It's one of those things boots use to try to make themselves seem saltier than other boots.

 

Many individuals try to judge another by the sizes of their stacks, which in itself is a boot move. Just because you have a bunch of unit citations doesn't mean you left the wire or did more than fill sandbags anymore than the lack of them.

[agate hunter]

Some great responses on here, I agree with the majority of them. My biggest overall problem is the many handout ribbons currently given out. Wearing a uniform should be a sense of pride enough (of course maybe it would be if the uniforms were better quality nowadays). I don't know why people think they would need huge ribbon racks to gain respect. Smaller racks of the past with just campaign and valor ribbons (or even just service ribbons such as GCM etc) have always gained my admiration.

 

And I too agree that the quality of both medals and ribbon bars should be higher than it currently is.