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Unidentified horizontal bar on wwii uniform


medalcollector
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medalcollector

Hello all,

 

I saw a horizontal bar on both sleeves below the chevrons of a WWII EM jacket. This is the first time I've seen it. Could someone please help me with what it is?

 

Thanks a lot in advance.

post-151439-0-89542400-1422237215.jpg

post-151439-0-90614000-1422237232.jpg

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Check this thread out. Nice jacket.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/223909-green-bar-under-rank-insignia/?hl=%2Bcombat+%2Bleader+%2Bstripe&do=findComment&comment=1773762

 

 

If you enter combat leaders stripe in the search bar at the top of the page several more threads should pop up.

 

Hope this helps

Bob

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medalcollector

Thanks guys. Found multiple posts for the same thing. It's interesting that he served one year overseas but was in 10th armored and 45th Div. maybe he was state side when he was in 45th.

 

What were they awarded for? What was the criteria? Once they were awarded and if your role changes or gets transferred to another unit are they removed?

 

Thanks again

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medalcollector

There was a lot of great info here. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/3276-green-combat-leader-stripe

 

1. So from what I see all NCOs should have worn this in WWiI. But it doesn't seem so (or am I wong?) so what was the award criteria?

 

2. Once they were awarded and if your role changes or gets transferred to another unit are they removed?

 

thanks again

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I think It talks about the criteria in the large post. To answer your second question, they were not removed upon transferring to another unit.

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The green stripe shows that the man led a unit in a combat situation. Maybe some of the others can elaborate more than myself. I normally see these on NCO jackets, so it appears that this might have been awarded to identify NCO's who took over a unit and led it in a combat situation after the unit's officer/s were WIA or KIA. Either near the end of WW2 or shortly thereafter the sleeve stripe was replaced by a green felt loop that went over the jacket's shoulder epaulettes. You often see the unit's crest (DI) pinned to the felt loop. I have examples of the sleeve stripes from WW2, and shoulder strap loops from Korea and Vietnam. All are on NCO jackets.

 

However, it appears that this was a permanent distinguishing mark - the soldier is authorized to wear it for the rest of his military career. I recently saw the photograph of a US Army general officer wearing this distinguishing loop on his service uniform, with his brigadier general star pinned over the felt loop on each shoulder . My guess is that he was awarded the mark for leading a unit in combat in WW2 as an NCO, then later promoted to officer and went up the ranks. Wish I had saved a copy of the photo and name for my files so that I could post it!

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The felt loops worn currently (and since WWII) on epaulettes are combat leader tabs. They are worn only by those in leadership billets, in combat arms units. For officers, that would be a Platoon Leader, Company Commander, Battalion Commander, Brigade Commander, Division Commander, etc. An XO, S3, etc. would not wear them. For NCOs, it would be Squad Leader, Section Leader, Platoon Sergeant, etc.

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Medalcollector, no, not every NCO in WW2 was eligible. That's what makes this a distinguishing mark. It points out only certain individuals who took over a unit from an officer and led the unit in combat after the officer was incapacitated in some way and unable to give orders. An NCO in a combat situation following orders/directions from his unit's assigned officer was NOT eligible for the distinguishing mark. The NCO had to be the senior ranking authority, effectively taking over command of the unit without direction from any officer in his immediate chain of command during a combat situation.

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12A54, I stand corrected! You are right. I was always under the impression that the combat leader stripe was more restricted to the criteria I described above. I'm also getting educated tonight. :)

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Squad Leaders, Platoon Sergeants, First Sergeants, Platoon Leaders, Battery/Company Commanders, Battalion Commanders, Brigade Commanders, DIVARTY Commanders, Assistant Division Commanders, Division Commanders, Corps or Field Force Commanders wore the Green Leadership Loops on their epaulets. It had nothing to do with what they did in combat. It all depend on the positions they currently hold.

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medalcollector

Wow a lot of great information guys. Thanks to everyone.

 

From the information, I'm assuming that a platoon commander who gets promoted to a captain and becomes an S3 loses the stripe/loop?

 

Thanks again :)

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Correct. The leadership tab (loop worn on the epaulettes) is only worn when in the leadership position. A Platoon Leader wears it, gets moved to Troop / Company / Battery XO and doesn't wear it.

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I was lucky (or dumb enough lol) to win this one! The seller lives 15 minutes away so I'm guessing this was local. I'll post when I get it!

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I was lucky (or dumb enough lol) to win this one! The seller lives 15 minutes away so I'm guessing this was local. I'll post when I get it!

I threw a bid on this one as well. Nice one!

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medalcollector

I was lucky (or dumb enough lol) to win this one! The seller lives 15 minutes away so I'm guessing this was local. I'll post when I get it!

I was going bid on this one too, but you ruined my plans by going over $150. I think you got an awesome item.

 

By the way, the seller has the ribbons and I'm sure you can get his fathers info from him. The seller is lucky to have his fathers items go to a forum member who will treasure it.

 

Good luck. Hope you'll enjoy it.

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Thanks! Honestly when I first bid, I figured no one else would have bid that high. Guess that messed up that plan! I'm hoping maybe they'll want to part with the ribbons, but who knows!

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