M1A1 Thompson

[ww2collector985]

Hey Everyone,

 

I have a question about torch cut firearms. I have a friend that has a M1A1 Thompson that was torch cut in three pieces and subsequently welded back together. The bolt is welded back in place but the slide still pulls back, locks and releases when the trigger is depressed. I don't believe any thing has been welded into the barrel. Are these items legal to sell? He is looking to sell it.

 

I was able to snap a couple of pics of it so you can see what I'm referring to about the receiver.

 

Any information would be helpful.

[TheGrayGhost]

If this is operational (all it has to do is fire once), he is really pushing his luck. I personally wouldn't sell it because the ATF could easily consider this an unregistered automatic weapon.

[ww2collector985]

The bolt is welded in place. So there is no way for a bullet to be chambered or fired.

[ww2collector985]

Thanks for your reply.

[TheGrayGhost]

Ok, that is a little better. Remember, this is all a matter of interpretation. The gray area is where the ATF can still consider a weapon that isn't currently operational, but "easily modified" to become operational to still be an automatic weapon. I think your friend is deep in the gray.

 

Basically, if your friend comes across the wrong ATF agent, he could be looking at prison time. He needs to ask himself, is it "worth" selling?

[Phantomf4]

This I believe is a big NO NO, I have talked to the ATF on rewelding receivers and they have always mentioned that so much length needs to be taken out. I personally wouldn't mess with this, all they have to say is you where trying to make it operable, then your done. Take it apart cut it up and find a dummy receiver, much less hassle and worry.

[Big Al]

The law is once a machine gun, always a machine gun. This kind of reconstruction is not allowed at all with the original receiver pieces. Strip and save all the parts (the lower receiver, the barrel, the foregrip mount, and the rear sight; be careful in grinding the rivets on the rear sight) from the receiver, and cut it up into as many pieces as possible and discard.

[Mitch]

I agree with Big Al. I have done a couple and this definitely won't fly now. They appear to parallel saw cuts which would not be acceptable now. They make you torch them at angles so as to not be able to reconstruct. Either you torch the crap out of or part it but not keep any receiver parts as Al says above

[ludwigh1980]

I would not start hacking it up yet. International Military Antiques sell dummy Bren's LMG with rewielded original recievers. Military Antique Museum http://www.militaryantiquesmuseum.com/military_antiques.php?step=20&searchunder=prodid&searchfor=14336

has two dummy Thompsons that have been similarly demilled.

The big issue is where the cuts are located and how much metal was removed. The ATF has diagrams on thier website for each specific weapon and where the cuts should be located and how much metal should be removed. There are plenty of parts kits that have been re-assembled to dummy guns using original recievers however there is very stringent guidelines on how it should be done. If it was just a saw cut reciever that has been rewielded and then the original bolt is welded in place then it is a no-go.

[dalbert]

I would suggest staying away from this Thompson. You can argue that it doesn't fire, etc., but when it comes down to it, the item was once a machine gun that became torch cut, and then got re-welded together. Dummy receivers are a different game. I would want an ATF letter stating this practice is acceptable before getting close to this item.

 

Let me pose a question...What would be the difference between this, and an uncut receiver that had the bolt welded into the receiver? It appears this receiver has been fairly skillfully remanufactured from its torch cut configuration.

 

All NFA Rules Apply.

 

David Albert

[email protected]

[ww2collector985]

Thanks guys for your feedback. I just didn't like the look of this and you confirmed my concerns.

 

Thanks

[cplnorton]

How much did he want for it? I might be interested in it just for the parts, not the receiver, if you are going to pass on it.

[Ronnie]

I heard that if the weapon is 80% complete then it was illegal. Funny story. I had one just like this. Supposedly it wouldn't fire but you could lock it back and pull the trigger and the bolt would slide forward. Take the mag out. It was really neat. I have one of Bruce Canfield's books and there is a WWII photo of a jeep that some guy had built a rack for a Thompson between the two front seats. I showed the photo to a friend who made me one just like it. I would mount my Thompson at shows and it made the jeep just a little bit sexy. One day while driving my jeep I pulled into a gas station to fill up. A black ford LTD pulled in and two guys wearing pistols got out. One put gas in the car and the other came over to look at my jeep. Then the other guy came over.. They liked it and we had a great visit. I asked if they were cops and one guy said, we're with the ATF. They never asked about the Thompson....paid it no attention at all. But they loved my old jeep!

[pzjgr]

Saw cuts were legal at one point, if it was saw cut when it was legal, then the receiver was legally destroyed. Once a receiver is legally destroyed, it CAN be welded back together to make a dummy gun, or a semi-auto gun.

 

There are rules, of course.

 

But the statements that a legally and properly "destroyed" receiver cannot be put back together to make a dummy or semi-auto is false. Once a machine gun, always a machine gun only applies to receivers that weren't properly destroyed. Hundreds of guys have built approved design semi's out of various torch cut MG's, there are web sites dedicated to doing just that.

 

Originally saw cuts were legal, then it became three torch cuts removing at least 1/4" of metal IIRC...then it became 4...

 

There are old, legally done saw cut BARs for instance...and of course 3 torch cut BREN and MG-34 and 42 receivers....they are more desired to make semi's and dummy's...the newer 4 cut receivers are much more difficult to put back together because of the location of the 4th cut...

 

Its a minefield, but I wouldn't automatically say that it is illegal...although most likely it is...

 

ETA It could also just be a really old dummy...back before the stupidity, back in the 50's and 60's, making a "dummy" gun would often just entail welding a rod in the barrel, and a few other simple mods, and no one cared. There are lots of these still kicking around forgotten in basements and attics. They may be "illegal" now, but were fine way back when...