More WWII Navy Rates

[Old Marine]

Here are some more WWI Navy rates from my pile. Note that the Gray rate is a "Right Rate" patch. This would have been worn on the Right sleeve whil all the others would have been worn on the left sleeve.

 

During WWII the navy had left and right ratings. Basically the type of job you had determined if you were left or right. The Ratings that actually sailed or fought the ship on deck, Boatswain mates, Signalmen, Gunner's Mates, Torpedomen, wore thier raitings on the right sleeve. All other members of the ships crew wore their rating on the left sleeve. I guess it kind of differentiated combat rates from support rates.

 

Anyway, around 1946-47 the Navy scrapped all of this and Everybody wore their rating on the left, as it still is today.

 

So even if a Navy Rate is not dated you can still tell, on some of them that they are WWII vintage by the way the crow is looking.

 

Dennis

[Old Marine]

The backs, and some dates

[Old Marine]

[Old Marine]

[Old Marine]

[Old Marine]

Does anyone know why that US Coast Guard Shield has the circle and Rope border?

 

Dennis

[Old Marine]

This is a Aviation Metalsmith Chief. The khaki one is postwar, Japanese made, and I am not sure of the age of the blue one. Anyway, they are nicely made.

 

[Old Marine]

[Old Marine]

[Old Marine]

I think the bullion work is pretty fantastic.

 

[topdcnut]

Dennis,

 

You have a nice collection, I especially like the Kahki CPO rate from Yokohama.

Have you got a copy of John Stacey's book in US Navy rating badges? it is a must.

 

The Right arm ratings were in existence from 1913 - 1948 and included BM, GM, MN, QM, SM, TM and TC. The Mineman without the chevron can be found in Right and left arm which means the test ran during and after the change from right and left rates.

 

I am not sure that the Navy ever wore grey rates under the rank of Chief, the 1941 regs that include the Coast Guard mentions the use of the coat by USCG enlisted personnel at shore stations, there was a rumor years ago that Armed Guard Pers wore grey jumpers I have never seen one, I have however seen 1st Cl PO kahki coats and own an EM1 Grey jacket.

 

The little block plane ( Pattern Maker specialty mark ) is post 48.

 

Thanks, John

[dpcsdan]

Dennis,

Thanks for sharing these.

The photo of the 1940 dated Electrician's Mate Third Class is a good example of those "dated" rating badges containing the contract date, as opposed to date of manufacture. An Electrician's Mate rating badge manufactured in 1940 would be a "right looking" rating badge and not the "left looking" rating badge as shown in this photo.

-dan

[dpcsdan]

Does anyone know why that US Coast Guard Shield has the circle and Rope border?

 

Dennis

This might be Coast Guard Auxillary.

-dan

[Old Marine]

Thanks for all the comments and information.

 

John, I'll look for that book, thanks for the tip!

 

Dennis

[Old Marine]

Here are some more Chief Rates. Can anyone tell me the difference between Red vs Gold Chevrons? I had heard that it had to do with the good conduct if the individual. If you ever had a disciplinary action you wore red, if your recored was clean you wore gold. Its that true? Of just BS that I accumulated somewhere?

 

If anybody can set me straight I would appreciate it.

 

Dennis

 

[Old Marine]

The undated backs

 

[Salvage Sailor]

This may be different for earlier periods in regard to USN good conduct (9 years?), but from the Cold War years to present, if you have 12 years of clean service (i.e. 3 awards in a row), you were entitled to wear gold chevrons. A sailor could have a Captains's mast or other infraction in his service record prior to or after this period, but that would not disqualify him from wearing Gold chevrons so long as he had a 12 year streak.

 

I recall seeing a Sailor at the Great Lakes training center while I was in 'A' school who had gold Seaman stripes! No clue what he did to get busted down to E-3, but he still wore gold and had gold hash marks too.....

 

Someone more versed in USN ranks and rates can chime in here, but I belive a Navy Good Conduct medal used to be awarded for three (3) years of unblemished service earlier in the 20th century, and then changed to (4) years post WWII. Don't recall the date of the change.

[sigsaye]

This may be different for earlier periods in regard to USN good conduct (9 years?), but from the Cold War years to present, if you have 12 years of clean service (i.e. 3 awards in a row), you were entitled to wear gold chevrons. A sailor could have a Captains's mast or other infraction in his service record prior to or after this period, but that would not disqualify him from wearing Gold chevrons so long as he had a 12 year streak.

 

I recall seeing a Sailor at the Great Lakes training center while I was in 'A' school who had gold Seaman stripes! No clue what he did to get busted down to E-3, but he still wore gold and had gold hash marks too.....

 

Someone more versed in USN ranks and rates can chime in here, but I belive a Navy Good Conduct medal used to be awarded for three (3) years of unblemished service earlier in the 20th century, and then changed to (4) years post WWII. Don't recall the date of the change.

Sort of, Gold stripes, (chevrons and hashmarks) indicate 12 continious years of good conduct, Or, prior to '97 qualifing for 3 good conduct medals. They were four years each, just like the hashmarks. In '97, the medal went to three years each (to get inline with the other services), but the hashmarks and qualification for gold remain 12 years continious good conduct. Some where in the early nineties, If you had a diciplinary infraction and had gold, you lost the gold.

 

I have never seen gold Seaman stripes. I have not seen any authorization for them, however have seen regs specifically against them (since the whole point of the color of the stripes is to designate branch). This does not mean that some one did'nt go out and get some made, why else would they bother to write a reg saying not to? I've seen E-2s & E-3s take the chevrons of stencil on crows for dungarees and cut them in half making SA & SN stripes to stencile on their dungarees. But, I have seen SNs with gold Hashmarks. BMSN Steve "Head Dog" Passaow on the USS Bradley FF 1041. Had 12 years of honorable service, all on Bradley and was undisputed leading Seaman. This was in the time before "High Year Tenyer", or other "up or Out" programs. He was content where he was being who he was, so the Navy was happy paying him to be a SN with 12 years experience. I also saw a third Class Torpedoman Submarines with six gold hashmarks. He was a reserve, don't know if that had anything to do with it, but was a bit surprised.

 

On the other hand, my sister just made Senior Chief (E-8) with just ten years in and has to special order a red crow.

 

Steve Hesson

[dpcsdan]

Sort of, Gold stripes, (chevrons and hashmarks) indicate 12 continious years of good conduct, Or, prior to '97 qualifing for 3 good conduct medals. They were four years each, just like the hashmarks. In '97, the medal went to three years each (to get inline with the other services), but the hashmarks and qualification for gold remain 12 years continious good conduct. Some where in the early nineties, If you had a diciplinary infraction and had gold, you lost the gold.

 

I have never seen gold Seaman stripes. I have not seen any authorization for them, however have seen regs specifically against them (since the whole point of the color of the stripes is to designate branch). This does not mean that some one did'nt go out and get some made, why else would they bother to write a reg saying not to? I've seen E-2s & E-3s take the chevrons of stencil on crows for dungarees and cut them in half making SA & SN stripes to stencile on their dungarees. But, I have seen SNs with gold Hashmarks. BMSN Steve "Head Dog" Passaow on the USS Bradley FF 1041. Had 12 years of honorable service, all on Bradley and was undisputed leading Seaman. This was in the time before "High Year Tenyer", or other "up or Out" programs. He was content where he was being who he was, so the Navy was happy paying him to be a SN with 12 years experience. I also saw a third Class Torpedoman Submarines with six gold hashmarks. He was a reserve, don't know if that had anything to do with it, but was a bit surprised.

 

On the other hand, my sister just made Senior Chief (E-8) with just ten years in and has to special order a red crow.

 

Steve Hesson

Steve,

Bravo Zulu to your sister!

-dan

[Old Marine]

Thank God I joined the Marine Corps, I don't think I could remember all those intricate uniform regulations..........woof!

 

 

But honestly, thanks for all the great information about these rates.

 

 

Dennis

[sigsaye]

Thank God I joined the Marine Corps, I don't think I could remember all those intricate uniform regulations..........woof!

But honestly, thanks for all the great information about these rates.

Dennis

Actually, very few of us remember them either. Few even know them. Basically, in the Navy, we just go with the flow. I think I actually had about fourteen years in when I saw uniform regs for the first time. I was facinated! Most of the uniforms we had during my time in the Navy were seldom worn, just stuffed in a locker . We had uniforms that only shoreduty people wore, the black shirt uniform (Winter/Working Blue). This took the place of undress blues, but only sahore office types wore it. A sea going Sailor might wear it if he went ashore for a school or shore patrol. Same with Sumer whites. The short sleeved white uniform. Top Siders would wear it for a quarter deck watch every four or five days, shore patrol, and shore office people wore it all the time. Dress blues were worn aboard ship for quarter deck watches and inspections. Shore people wore it for inspections. Dress whites for E-6 and below were sometimes worn for deck watches or shore patrol. Choker whites for Chiefs were for full dress only (Change of Command type things). I knew Chiefs who didn't own the things, hated that uniform. When they needed the thing, they would go but one from the exchange, do the event, and then take it back. It might be two years till they needed the thing again.

 

About the only uniform that got heavy use was dungarees, all day every day aboard ship. They were simple, name stenciled over the left pocket of the shirt and right rear pocket of the trousers. (these stencils were often hand done, with out a stencil. E-4 to E-6 wore an iron stencil crow on th eleft sleeve. Ball cap or white hat, and a blue working jacket with a generaic crow for thirds to firsts, and yuo were done. Oh yeah, black shoes. Some wore oxfords, boon dockers, flight boots, combat boots, civilian boots, nobody paid much attention.In the nineties, they tried to get us to look all military by putting everything on sew on tapes for the dungarees, name tapes, US Navy tapes, sew on crows and warfare pins, sort of took the point of a "get dirty" work uniform away.

 

 

 

Steve Hesson

[militaria7]

Afternoon,

 

I am looking for a decent condition WWII Navy rate for a Seabee...Carpenter's Mate 2nd Class. It can be the blue and red serge or the white and blue - doesn't matter. I need this for a shdowbox presentation I am working on for an old Seabee who I recently met and who may not be with us much longer. I've got all of the medals he rates as well as a small WWII Seabee patch to put in the shadowbox but I still need his rate. Can you help me out with one? Let me know as soon as possible!

 

Semper Fi,

 

Rick Lawrence, MSgt., USMC/USAFR (RET)

Tulsa, OK