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INFO REQ: Question about uniform display


doughboywwi
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I am trying to put together a kit of the 112th Engineers, Company F, which were part of the 37th Division. I have some questions about their uniforms...

  • What uniform would they wear? The M1912 or M1917?
  • What kind of head-wear?
  • What pattern of cartridge belt, canteen cover, and first-aid pouch would they have used?
  • What model of gas mask would they have been issued, the B.S.B.R. or the C.E.M.?
  • What items would they have put in their haversacks? Like sewing-kit models, shaving kits, etc.
  • Would they have any other amenities, like wire-cutters, etc.?
  • What would they have documentation-wise? Like pay-books, etc.?
  • Also, anything else I may have missed.

Thank you all in advance. I appreciate you taking time to answer my multitude of questions.

~Garrett

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If the 37th is like the 32nd division they were formed in 1917. You would need to find the lineage of that unit to see just what they were in the time period you are looking for. Several of the Michigan Cavalry units were made into Artillery units when the division was formed. Member 37th guy may be able to help you.

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world war I nerd

Hi Garret,

 

Specific details for your request depend on where your particular 37th Division Doughboy was at the time. The uniform worn during basic training would have been different from the one worn when he landed in France. In turn what he wore in combat would likely be comprised of items that were different from those that he wore when he arrived in June of 1918.

I’m guessing you wish to depict an AEF engineer in combat circa September, October or November of 1918. If that’s the case an enlisted man’s uniform would likely be comprised of the following:

 

For identification purposes, each Doughboy wore two aluminum ID tags which in theory were to be stamped only with the soldier’s name, serial number and the initials USA. Each soldier was also issued a “Soldier’s Paybook” which was only used whenever he was away from his parent organization on temporary detached duty. I doubt that these were carried in the trenches, but I don’t actually know for sure.

 

Underwear would be comprised of a long sleeved flannel or woolen undershirt and long “drawers”.

Hobnailed 1917 “Trench” Shoes or 1918 “Pershing” Shoes would be worn on the feet. A second pair of shoes was to be carried on the haversack but these were often “lost” by the Doughboys in an attempt to lighten their load.

 

Woolen spiral wrap puttees would also be worn.

 

Both the 1912 or 1917 pattern woolen service coat would be appropriate. However, at that late stage of the war the 1917 pattern would have been more common.

In May or August 1918, the War Department decreed that all troops whether they hailed from the Regular Army, National Guard or National Army were all part of the US Army and as such, all organizations were to wear only the US disc. This order never really caught on or was enforced, especially overseas, so either a US or USNG collar disc, along with an engineer’s disc would be appropriate.

 

Beginning in May of 1918 NCO chevrons were to be worn only on the right sleeve, however photographic evidence shows that numerous Doughboys continued to wear NCO chevrons on both sleeves until the end of the war, so either way is correct.

 

Woolen service breeches would again be either of the1917 or 1918 pattern. The breeches would be held up by the regulation 1 inch wide khaki trouser belt with a bonze finish friction buckle.

The shirt would be the typical pull over, three button, olive drab flannel shirt.

 

Headgear would include a 1917 Steel Helmet and an overseas cap. The overseas cap could be of either US, British or French manufacture. Regulations called for the branch of service disc to be worn on the left side of the cap’s curtain. Many Doughboy’s however, opted to wear various “sweetheart pins” bearing the appropriate branch of service, officer’s US collar devices, US collar discs and in many instances, nothing at all.

 

Engineers were allowed a great deal of leeway in respect to an overcoat. This garment could be any one of the following: 1917 Overcoat that was shortened, late war 1918 Overcoat, or the 1917 Short Overcoat with roll collar and patch pockets. Because the overcoat was considered to be too bulky, you often see engineers wearing either the hip length Mackinaw or leather jerkin.

In cold weather a Red Cross sweater vest and knit toque or balaclava would be worn along with regulation wool gloves or Red Cross fingerless “wristlets”. In addition engineer troops were often issued a pair of trigger finger, horsehide gauntlets to wear when stringing barbed wire or working with heavy equipment.

 

He also would have carried a 1918 raincoat for dismounted troops.

 

Basic equipment would be comprised of the following:

 

1910 Haversack, Pack tail & Meat Can Pouch with the appropriate Springfield or Enfield bayonet and scabbard attached unless only a side arm was carried. Inside the pack would be a meat can (mess kit) knife, fork & spoon, condiment can, emergency ration, reserve rations, three pairs of spare socks, spare set of underwear, extra shoelaces, blanket, shelter half, tent pole (1), tent pegs (5), and tent rope (1), and personal items.

 

A 1917 (woven) or 1918 (sewn) Rifle Cartridge Belt, mounted (9 pocket) or dismounted (10 pocket) depending on whether or not a sidearm was carried or a 1912 Pistol Belt if only a sidearm was authorized would be worn.

 

Suspended from either belt would be a 1910 First Aid Pouch with first aid packet, and a 1910 Canteen carrier with canteen & cup. 1916 Pistol Holster or 1917 Revolver Holster (if authorized) along with the appropriate 1912 Pistol Magazine Pouch or 1917 Revolver Cartridge Pouch.

 

Other equipment might include either a 1910 Shovel & Carrier, 1910 Pick-Mattock & Carrier or the 1910 Hand Ax & Carrier, attached to the haversack behind the meat can pouch. In addition one man in each squad carried a pair of heavy wire cutters which could be of US British or French manufacture.

 

Within 12 miles of the front each Doughboy had to be in position of a gasmask. This would likely be either a US made Corrected English Model (CEM) or the improved version; the US made RFK Small Box Respirator.

 

Weapons wise enlisted men would probably be armed with a 1917 Enfield Rifle and or a .45 automatic pistol or .45 caliber revolver when prescribed. A 1917 pistol lanyard may or may not have been carried. Accessories for the rifle would include. A leather sling, oiler and thong, breech cover, and when in combat at least two cloth bandoleers each containing sixty rounds of rifle cartridges.

 

Officially, in the way of personal effects the men were authorized to carry ¼ pound tin of foot powder, soap, towel, shaving kit, shaving soap or powder, shaving brush, tooth brush, tooth paste or powder, comb, small trench mirror, and a housewife or sewing kit.

 

In addition each Doughboy carried a wide assortment of personal items based on his needs. The most common items being stationary, pens and pencils, pocket knives, handkerchiefs, reading material, playing cards, dice, small flashlights, trench candles, tobacco, chewing gum, candy, wrist watches, etc.

 

I’m sure I left out or forgotten something but this should at least get you started. If you have any specific questions don’t hesitate to ask.

 

Brian

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I may add that there was a Bolo knife that was common amongst the Engineer corps featuring a rather large curved blade carried in a leather scabbard...

 

TR

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Thanks everyone for the help, it is much appreciated.

 

My question is on your kits, is everything original? Like the underwear, toothpaste, etc?

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Garret-- this is a great rundown that Brian has provided--I would suggest you print it off and keep it as guideline--the only change i would make is to the rifle.

 

Army policy of the period was that Regular Army and National Guard Divisions were equipped with the Springfields and the National Army Divisions and other units were equipped with Enfields---Why? pretty simple, with this one edict, the Army could ensure that they only needed Enfield spare parts and weapons instructions for the NA and only Springfield parts and training for the RA and NG...if your guy is a 37th Div guy then he would have been considered a Nat Guard soldier and hence the Springfield.

good hunting,

Al

Hi Garret,

 

Specific details for your request depend on where your particular 37th Division Doughboy was at the time. The uniform worn during basic training would have been different from the one worn when he landed in France. In turn what he wore in combat would likely be comprised of items that were different from those that he wore when he arrived in June of 1918.

I’m guessing you wish to depict an AEF engineer in combat circa September, October or November of 1918. If that’s the case an enlisted man’s uniform would likely be comprised of the following:

 

For identification purposes, each Doughboy wore two aluminum ID tags which in theory were to be stamped only with the soldier’s name, serial number and the initials USA. Each soldier was also issued a “Soldier’s Paybook” which was only used whenever he was away from his parent organization on temporary detached duty. I doubt that these were carried in the trenches, but I don’t actually know for sure.

 

Underwear would be comprised of a long sleeved flannel or woolen undershirt and long “drawers”.

Hobnailed 1917 “Trench” Shoes or 1918 “Pershing” Shoes would be worn on the feet. A second pair of shoes was to be carried on the haversack but these were often “lost” by the Doughboys in an attempt to lighten their load.

 

Woolen spiral wrap puttees would also be worn.

 

Both the 1912 or 1917 pattern woolen service coat would be appropriate. However, at that late stage of the war the 1917 pattern would have been more common.

In May or August 1918, the War Department decreed that all troops whether they hailed from the Regular Army, National Guard or National Army were all part of the US Army and as such, all organizations were to wear only the US disc. This order never really caught on or was enforced, especially overseas, so either a US or USNG collar disc, along with an engineer’s disc would be appropriate.

 

Beginning in May of 1918 NCO chevrons were to be worn only on the right sleeve, however photographic evidence shows that numerous Doughboys continued to wear NCO chevrons on both sleeves until the end of the war, so either way is correct.

 

Woolen service breeches would again be either of the1917 or 1918 pattern. The breeches would be held up by the regulation 1 inch wide khaki trouser belt with a bonze finish friction buckle.

The shirt would be the typical pull over, three button, olive drab flannel shirt.

 

Headgear would include a 1917 Steel Helmet and an overseas cap. The overseas cap could be of either US, British or French manufacture. Regulations called for the branch of service disc to be worn on the left side of the cap’s curtain. Many Doughboy’s however, opted to wear various “sweetheart pins” bearing the appropriate branch of service, officer’s US collar devices, US collar discs and in many instances, nothing at all.

 

Engineers were allowed a great deal of leeway in respect to an overcoat. This garment could be any one of the following: 1917 Overcoat that was shortened, late war 1918 Overcoat, or the 1917 Short Overcoat with roll collar and patch pockets. Because the overcoat was considered to be too bulky, you often see engineers wearing either the hip length Mackinaw or leather jerkin.

In cold weather a Red Cross sweater vest and knit toque or balaclava would be worn along with regulation wool gloves or Red Cross fingerless “wristlets”. In addition engineer troops were often issued a pair of trigger finger, horsehide gauntlets to wear when stringing barbed wire or working with heavy equipment.

 

He also would have carried a 1918 raincoat for dismounted troops.

 

Basic equipment would be comprised of the following:

 

1910 Haversack, Pack tail & Meat Can Pouch with the appropriate Springfield or Enfield bayonet and scabbard attached unless only a side arm was carried. Inside the pack would be a meat can (mess kit) knife, fork & spoon, condiment can, emergency ration, reserve rations, three pairs of spare socks, spare set of underwear, extra shoelaces, blanket, shelter half, tent pole (1), tent pegs (5), and tent rope (1), and personal items.

 

A 1917 (woven) or 1918 (sewn) Rifle Cartridge Belt, mounted (9 pocket) or dismounted (10 pocket) depending on whether or not a sidearm was carried or a 1912 Pistol Belt if only a sidearm was authorized would be worn.

 

Suspended from either belt would be a 1910 First Aid Pouch with first aid packet, and a 1910 Canteen carrier with canteen & cup. 1916 Pistol Holster or 1917 Revolver Holster (if authorized) along with the appropriate 1912 Pistol Magazine Pouch or 1917 Revolver Cartridge Pouch.

 

Other equipment might include either a 1910 Shovel & Carrier, 1910 Pick-Mattock & Carrier or the 1910 Hand Ax & Carrier, attached to the haversack behind the meat can pouch. In addition one man in each squad carried a pair of heavy wire cutters which could be of US British or French manufacture.

 

Within 12 miles of the front each Doughboy had to be in position of a gasmask. This would likely be either a US made Corrected English Model (CEM) or the improved version; the US made RFK Small Box Respirator.

 

Weapons wise enlisted men would probably be armed with a 1917 Enfield Rifle and or a .45 automatic pistol or .45 caliber revolver when prescribed. A 1917 pistol lanyard may or may not have been carried. Accessories for the rifle would include. A leather sling, oiler and thong, breech cover, and when in combat at least two cloth bandoleers each containing sixty rounds of rifle cartridges.

 

Officially, in the way of personal effects the men were authorized to carry ¼ pound tin of foot powder, soap, towel, shaving kit, shaving soap or powder, shaving brush, tooth brush, tooth paste or powder, comb, small trench mirror, and a housewife or sewing kit.

 

In addition each Doughboy carried a wide assortment of personal items based on his needs. The most common items being stationary, pens and pencils, pocket knives, handkerchiefs, reading material, playing cards, dice, small flashlights, trench candles, tobacco, chewing gum, candy, wrist watches, etc.

 

I’m sure I left out or forgotten something but this should at least get you started. If you have any specific questions don’t hesitate to ask.

 

Brian

 

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WWInerd's post is very complete. I would just add/reinforce a few points. As said, your impression will change depending on the time of the war that you are portraying. On paybooks: AEF paybooks were created through General Order 126, August 1, 1918. They supposedly didn't really come into general use until October. I don't know if they were carried all of the time. As pay would come when troops were pulled off of the line, it's possible that paybooks were kept with the troops' supplemental gear. (my conjecture.) GO 63, November 20,1917, regulated the use of ID cards. All commissioned officers were to be issued (and carry at all times) a photo ID. Enlisted troops were not to have permanent ID's. They were given temporary ID cards to carry if they were to leave their divisional area either on duty or furlough. On raincoats: my research has found that the dismounted raincoat came in relatively late - maybe late summer or later. Before that, those troops that were issued raingear got the poncho or the mounted slicker. There appear to be a lot of mounted slickers photographed on dismounted troops (including some engineers that I've seen); so I'll bet that they issued all that they had in the inventory as soon as they figured out the problems with the poncho. That point is, of course, mute from a living history standpoint, as no one is reproducing the mounted slicker. (Although, I think that I've just about got Jerry Lee at What Price Glory talked into it!)

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world war I nerd

Thanks for correcting my error regarding the Enfield vs the Springfield rifles. I also noticed that I incorrectly wrote 1917 or 1918 pattern service breeches would be worn. That should read 1912 or 1917 pattern service breeches.

 

Cavdoc83 is also correct in regard to the raincoats. The "Slicker" for mounted troops was adopted on August 24, 1917 to replace the "Oiled Pommel Slicker" that was adopted for mounted troops on July 23, 1913.

 

A raincoat for foot troops wasn't adopted until February 20, 1918. It replaced the poncho which could not be worn when the gasmask satchel was in the alert position.

 

Thanks also for the additional information on the soldier's paybook. I was not aware of the fact that they were not issued until late in the war.

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Agreed--that is great info about the soldier's paybook---I always wondered why my uncle Harold's paybook was in such great shape even though he had been through St Mihiel and the Argonne---now I know---he wasn't carrying it...unfortunately while he was alive I wasn't smart enough to ask these kind of questions...Al

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Much appreciated regarding the rifles and pay-books. The kit I'm trying to replicate took-part in the Meuse-Argonne and Ypres-Lys campaigns, as well as the Defensive Sector. His brother was in the ambulance corps and his cousin-in-law (which connects to the other end of my family tree) was in a depot/training bn in the 84th Div. He was a corporal, so he wouldn't have the chevrons (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Also, would they have mixed the M1912 and M1917 trousers/uniforms?

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world war I nerd

Hi garret,

 

For the most part everything on the above list works for the campaigns you listed. In combat the soldiers always ditched the junk they thought was useless. They also acquired items that they thought were useful were not issued specifically to them. Therefore, there is some degree of latitude in respect to clothing and equipment.

 

The Army in general preferred its NCOs (sergeants and corporals) to wear their respective rank chevrons. However, if a corporal just swapped a filthy coat with chevrons for a clean one without, nobody would have cared until they came out of the line.

 

It's nearly impossible to tell from period photographs whether or not a soldier wore a mixture of 1912 and 1917 garments. Personally, I think that they did. Quartermaster statistics show that during the heavy fighting between June and November of 1918, the average pair of woolen breeches lasted only 60 days, while the average woolen coat lasted 79 days at the front. Therefore, if a Doughboy was issued a matching uniform the breeches would have been replaced some 20 or so days before the coat.

 

At the front, because ammunition, food, water, forage for the animals, gasoline, and medical supplies all needed to be replenished daily. This put replacement clothing pretty far down on the list in respect to priority. Thus replacement clothing was not always available when needed. When a garment was desperately needed it was generally scrounged from the battlefield or from one of the mandatory salvage piles that were established at key points wherever the AEF happened to be. Salvage piles could be huge and contained practically everything a Doughboy could possibly need. I've read accounts of soldiers digging through salvage piles hoping to find overcoats, shoes, blankets, mess kits, etc. A soldier in need wouldn't have cared at all what the color or pattern of the coat or breeches were as long as they were OD and in better shape than those he wore.

 

AEF doctrine called for new clothing to be issued when a unit rotated out of the front line to a reserve position. The replacement clothing was usually provided compliments of the AEF Salvage Service who had collected the filthy louse ridden garments that were cast off by the previous organization to pass through that position. Those garments were disinfected, laundered, repaired and then reissued to who ever happened to need them. No one would have paid any attention if the coat was a pattern 1917 and the breeches were a pattern 1912. All they would have cared about was getting a complete uniform that was approximately the right size.

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Ok, thanks. That clears some things up.

Hi garret,

 

For the most part everything on the above list works for the campaigns you listed. In combat the soldiers always ditched the junk they thought was useless. They also acquired items that they thought were useful were not issued specifically to them. Therefore, there is some degree of latitude in respect to clothing and equipment.

 

The Army in general preferred its NCOs (sergeants and corporals) to wear their respective rank chevrons. However, if a corporal just swapped a filthy coat with chevrons for a clean one without, nobody would have cared until they came out of the line.

 

It's nearly impossible to tell from period photographs whether or not a soldier wore a mixture of 1912 and 1917 garments. Personally, I think that they did. Quartermaster statistics show that during the heavy fighting between June and November of 1918, the average pair of woolen breeches lasted only 60 days, while the average woolen coat lasted 79 days at the front. Therefore, if a Doughboy was issued a matching uniform the breeches would have been replaced some 20 or so days before the coat.

 

At the front, because ammunition, food, water, forage for the animals, gasoline, and medical supplies all needed to be replenished daily. This put replacement clothing pretty far down on the list in respect to priority. Thus replacement clothing was not always available when needed. When a garment was desperately needed it was generally scrounged from the battlefield or from one of the mandatory salvage piles that were established at key points wherever the AEF happened to be. Salvage piles could be huge and contained practically everything a Doughboy could possibly need. I've read accounts of soldiers digging through salvage piles hoping to find overcoats, shoes, blankets, mess kits, etc. A soldier in need wouldn't have cared at all what the color or pattern of the coat or breeches were as long as they were OD and in better shape than those he wore.

 

AEF doctrine called for new clothing to be issued when a unit rotated out of the front line to a reserve position. The replacement clothing was usually provided compliments of the AEF Salvage Service who had collected the filthy louse ridden garments that were cast off by the previous organization to pass through that position. Those garments were disinfected, laundered, repaired and then reissued to who ever happened to need them. No one would have paid any attention if the coat was a pattern 1917 and the breeches were a pattern 1912. All they would have cared about was getting a complete uniform that was approximately the right size.

 

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Brian is right about the salvage operations conducted by the AEF---the salvage teams set up behind the lines and every soldier that walked off the line to the rear, for whatever reason, was expected to carry one salvageable item; be it a handful of cartridge cases, a broken harness strap, a single shoe...something that could be possible reused.

 

as far as uniform reissue was concerned, every night in the Meuse Argonne when the 29th Division quartermasters brought up the supplies, ammunition and food, they carried 20 pairs of trousers and so that night, the 20 guys with the holiest trousers they encountered got new ones. When you consider that each division had over 25,000 soldiers (two thirds of them in infantry and field artillery brigades) the need to dig into salvage piles was pretty standard--it would take a long time to swap out trousers in an infantry regiment at 20 a day...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Garrett,

Just saw your post.

Here is an old canteen, cup and pouch I picked up about 13 years ago. It is marked to the 112th Engineers and looks well used. I guess anything close to 100 years old would look well used!

I ordinarily would have thought that the NG would have ink stamped their stuff like this before they were federalized and not bothered doing it once the war started but this piece was manufactured in late 1917 and probably wasn't issued until 1918, after they were called up.

Kim

post-60-0-63123500-1421570545.jpg

post-60-0-37352900-1421570570.jpg

post-60-0-82489700-1421570602.jpg

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Hi Garrett,

Just saw your post.

Here is an old canteen, cup and pouch I picked up about 13 years ago. It is marked to the 112th Engineers and looks well used. I guess anything close to 100 years old would look well used!

I ordinarily would have thought that the NG would have ink stamped their stuff like this before they were federalized and not bothered doing it once the war started but this piece was manufactured in late 1917 and probably wasn't issued until 1918, after they were called up.

Kim

I agree, I wouldn't have thought they'd unit-stamped their stuff either.

Also, great canteen cover! That is the kinda thing I am looking for.

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In addition to the canteen covers, It is not unusual to find unit marked mess gear either. One question would be; when did they stamp it? During the war or after?

 

In any event, here are two mess kits from the 38th Division, Indiana National Guard.

 

Battery F, 139th Field Artillery

post-203-0-79192800-1421881806.jpg

post-203-0-54232900-1421881807.jpg

Headquarters Company, 151st Infantry

post-203-0-21937000-1421881806.jpg

post-203-0-47744300-1421881805.jpg

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