navyman Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share #26 Posted January 7, 2015 I think the last ship that had that name was in service from the 1870's to 1911. Gun boat if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted January 7, 2015 Share #27 Posted January 7, 2015 Thanks, this was not cheap but I think I did o.k. considering how much those rating badges bring. The hat has nice stitch work done to it also. What I like about this group is the picture of it being wore. I think you did very very well on this one. Plus, it is one of those things that you will never regret buying, because it will be tough, if not impossible to up grade. It will be interesting to learn what you uncover as far as additional dating clues once you get it in hand. It is clearly Span Am era, but my gut is it was probably made after the rate became obsolete, which could put it up as far as 1910 or so.....though more likely closer to 1900 than not. I looked at the USS Alliance's history, and that did not really provide any clues except it went out of commission in 1911. That could explain the tally, because it may have been obsolete as well. However, this outfit was tailored by someone who made uniforms for sailors, so I think it is just as likely this child's father had it made, and provided the tally because he served on the Alliance. Sadly, some things we will never know, though a few things are certain....this is a very rare and neat set.....again, congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share #28 Posted January 7, 2015 Thanks again, It would be nice if there is a date on the back of that photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share #29 Posted January 7, 2015 I wish I had a name to that USS Buffalo grouping. Liberty jumper set. I think you seen that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted January 7, 2015 Share #30 Posted January 7, 2015 It would be nice if there is a date on the back of that photo. Yes, or an uncommon enough name that we could track the little brat down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted January 7, 2015 Share #31 Posted January 7, 2015 I wish I had a name to that USS Buffalo grouping. Liberty jumper set. I think you seen that one. I think I missed seeing that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share #32 Posted January 7, 2015 Here are my top 3 pre 1911 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/136550-uss-buffalo-liberty-set/?hl=navyman&do=findComment&comment=1031275 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/158510-post-span-am-war-navy-uniform/?hl=navyman http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/136479-possible-cw-era-liberty-set/?hl=navyman&do=findComment&comment=1030984 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share #33 Posted January 7, 2015 Not sure if you seen this one, my earliest cpo named and dated 1911 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/78464-navy-cpo-jacket-dated-1911/?hl=%2Bdated+%2B1911+%2Bcpo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted January 7, 2015 Share #34 Posted January 7, 2015 Those are all very nice! I really like the USS Buffalo outfit, and enjoyed reading all the discussion about it...mostly all the "is it real" stuff. Am going to have to find and put my thinking cap on, because the name Beyer is familiar, just can't remember why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share #35 Posted January 7, 2015 Those are all very nice! I really like the USS Buffalo outfit, and enjoyed reading all the discussion about it...mostly all the "is it real" stuff. Am going to have to find and put my thinking cap on, because the name Beyer is familiar, just can't remember why. That Buffalo set is early but not sure how early. The yeoman rate being on the right arm helps date it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang.CDR Posted January 8, 2015 Share #36 Posted January 8, 2015 Here are my top 3 pre 1911 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/136550-uss-buffalo-liberty-set/?hl=navyman&do=findComment&comment=1031275 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/158510-post-span-am-war-navy-uniform/?hl=navyman http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/136479-possible-cw-era-liberty-set/?hl=navyman&do=findComment&comment=1030984 These are some really!! impressive uniforms. While I have some nice embroidered hats, I have never seen a uniform set like the USS BUFFALO before, BZ!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpcsdan Posted January 9, 2015 Share #37 Posted January 9, 2015 John Stacey's thoughts on the Gun Captain 2c rating badge: "I think the rating badge is a good one, a keeper. Pretty old, maybe 20’s. Construction suggests made overseas or by other than a professional manufacturer." -dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted January 9, 2015 Share #38 Posted January 9, 2015 John Stacey's thoughts on the Gun Captain 2c rating badge: "I think the rating badge is a good one, a keeper. Pretty old, maybe 20’s. Construction suggests made overseas or by other than a professional manufacturer." -dan Excellent news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted January 9, 2015 Share #39 Posted January 9, 2015 My wheels were still spinning on this one, and I wanted to add to my previous comment.... It is great to hear John thinks this rate is "a good one"....that is huge, but the 1920's seem pretty late for that style eagle to have passed inspection....knocking ten years off that timeframe seems a little better, and actually navyman's initial thought of this rate being closer to 1900 seems best. I'll be very interested to hear what Justin thinks. In any event, it is cool one....and clearly a very rare bird....congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share #40 Posted January 9, 2015 Dan, this ratiting was only used until 1904 . But I am glad he thinks its good. My picture does not show the quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted January 9, 2015 Share #41 Posted January 9, 2015 I'll be very interested to hear what Justin thinks. I think I am out of my depth! My feeling is that it looks good for Span-Am War period. But a lot of people, like Sigsaye, know more about the materials, construction details and handiwork than I ever will. Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpcsdan Posted January 10, 2015 Share #42 Posted January 10, 2015 Dan, this ratiting was only used until 1904 . But I am glad he thinks its good. My picture does not show the quality. Jason, Why don't you drop John a line. It's possible he believes it was produced in the 20s-early 30s as a full size rating badge for use on a Middy from the start? -dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share #43 Posted January 10, 2015 Jason, Why don't you drop John a line. It's possible he believes it was produced in the 20s-early 30s as a full size rating badge for use on a Middy from the start? -dan I probably will Dan. I wonder if he miss spoke on the date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted January 10, 2015 Share #44 Posted January 10, 2015 One thing that must be considered, is John has not been apart of this thread, and thus has not had as much time to think about this or consider what has been said. I do not take the 20's date as being a hard and fast one, and really believe he was saying it was that or before....which I agree it it is. I think it is clear that his opinion is this is a "good one", meaning not something from a middy. That means a lot. That said, my thinking is in line with Justin's, that this is hovering around the Span Am period. I also think this is one of those pieces that given time, something will eventually surface that helps nail it down. One thing I have not mentioned, is I have a memory of seeing one of these before....not identified as anything, just another example. Lastly, one thing that might help, is some side by side pictures of this rate and another with the same eagle style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share #45 Posted January 10, 2015 One thing that must be considered, is John has not been apart of this thread, and thus has not had as much time to think about this or consider what has been said. I do not take the 20's date as being a hard and fast one, and really believe he was saying it was that or before....which I agree it it is. I think it is clear that his opinion is this is a "good one", meaning not something from a middy. That means a lot. That said, my thinking is in line with Justin's, that this is hovering around the Span Am period. I also think this is one of those pieces that given time, something will eventually surface that helps nail it down. One thing I have not mentioned, is I have a memory of seeing one of these before....not identified as anything, just another example. Lastly, one thing that might help, is some side by side pictures of this rate and another with the same eagle style. Also the eagle being a little off could to due that this was made oversea's somewhere. Which was said earlier. My feeling is it is span am, 1898,1899, 1900 period. I have seen this period with the chevrons on this rating badge and the eagle being different could be due to it being made oversea's like John S said. Like he said its a keeper and really did not pay all that much for it, thats why I bought it. I knew that it being different it would be harder to i.d. as a period piece. I appreciate all that gave there opinions and insight on this. Thankyou all Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topdcnut Posted January 11, 2015 Share #46 Posted January 11, 2015 There has been a lot of discussion on this rate but what about the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share #47 Posted January 11, 2015 There has been a lot of discussion on this rate but what about the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Minton Posted January 12, 2015 Share #48 Posted January 12, 2015 Just to confuse things more, any chance it could have been made later for a reunion or parade uniform worn after retirement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted January 12, 2015 Share #49 Posted January 12, 2015 Just to confuse things more, any chance it could have been made later for a reunion or parade uniform worn after retirement? There is always a chance of that. It also has a chance of it being a manufactures sample or possibly an error. Another possibility that has not been brought up, is the top parts were embroidered and put aside for some reason before 1900, and the chevrons were added sometime later to complete it. That would then lead to the question of completed for what purpose. Much, if not most, of the pre 1902 Army and pre 1897 navy insignia we find today came out of Bannerman's or several lesser surplus dealers. The vast majority was completed obsolete pieces, but there were lots of leftover parts and pieces as well....especially parts of earlier army chevrons. The tough thing with this particular rate, is we are still missing a couple of pieces of the puzzle to totally nail it down. That element of mystery is part of the fun with these old rates, but it can also be frustrating, because we would really like to have the answer....but sometimes that can take years to totally reveal itself....if it ever does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share #50 Posted January 12, 2015 I was looking thru John Stacey's newer version Rating badge book. On page 8 there is a picture of a old style eagle with this style of chevrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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