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1910-1917 Transition Enlisted Garrison Belt Question


mikes militaria
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mikes militaria

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I'm comparing the Mag pouches from the 1917 Enlisted Garrison Belt to the Mag Pouches for the 1910- 1917 Transition Enlisted Garrison Belt. According to the "US Marshall Web Belts and Bandoliers" by Stephen Dorsey.

 

I had one of the Transition pouches and decided to find another. My original was on a 1917 Garrison belt. When I finally found a match I tried to put it on the 1917 belt and it didn't fit. I then noticed my original pouch was ripped (unstitched) in order to make it fit on the 1917 belt. I started to look closely and noticed that a stripper clip from the 1903 wouldn't really fit in the "Transition" Pouch.

 

When I purchased the second pouch it was billed as a 45 revolver ammo pouch. I just thought the guy didn't know what he had. Now I don't know what I have. I know the belts are different and now I need a Transition belt and hanger for a Bayonet. It just doesn't seem that an '03 stripper clip will fit easily if at all. I wasn't going to force it.

 

Does anyone know if the "Transition" belt is really a Pistol Garrison belt. If it is a Pistol Belt , why would it have a Hanger? The revolver holster slides on.

 

If you have the Web Gear book by Dorsey, look on pages 93 and 95.

 

Thanks, Mike

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have three of the later 1917 pouches, so I'll offer my thoughts.

 

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Upon receiving my Mills garrison pouches, I pulled out two stripper clips of Remington .30-06 hunting ammo because I didn't have any M2 Ball at the moment. They fit, but with much persuasion. IMO, your transitional pouch (which I do not have) is probably just a bit tight from sitting in storage for the past century and will accept two stripper clips just fine. They were designed for the M1903 and not for the revolvers in service -- Mills manufactured a very rare specific belt to hold revolver ammo before the war.

 

If you want to display your transition pouch without worrying about the bullet tips poking the fabric, I put my spent .30-06 brass from the range onto stripper clips and stuff my pouches, bandoliers, belts, etc. with them. That's how I filled the 1918 Mills cartridge belt in the picture.

 

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Also, I find it interesting when you say that your transitional pouch didn't fit on the belt. My 1917 pouches slip onto this 1918 Mills pistol belt just fine. (Ignore the graffiti -- it was there when I got it! :o ) I think that your transitional pouch is just a bit tight.

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mikes militaria

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One stripper clip barely fits with quite a bit of effort. I'd hate to be the one on guard duty when Pancho showed up and had to reload in a hurry. It's just as much as a pain to get it out as it is to get it in. That's probably why it was changed.

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mikes militaria

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When I got the Garrison belt this "Transition" pouch was on it. I didn't notice it was unsewn to make it fit on the 1917 belt. The transition belt in the picture in the book listed earlier is smaller.. I just really don't see this as a functional pouch for 30-06. It may have shrunk as stated earlier. I thought that until I saw the listing for the 45 revolver pouch when I purchased the second matching transition pouch. It made me think and wonder

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mikes militaria

post-154336-0-13546800-1421889624.jpg

The difference between the 1917 and 1910-1917 transition pouches. It definitely won't fit a regular pistol belt. The transition pouch is stitched about 1/2 inch above the bottom seam for a skinnier belt. I was just wondering if the seller that listed the transition pouch as a 45 revolver pouch new something I didn't and was just asking for more info. Thanks for looking

Mike

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Wow, I had no idea that the transitional pouch was so small! Seeing it next to its big brother really put things into perspective.

 

Anyways, I found a picture from the era that might solve our dilemma.

 

post-122047-0-24006200-1421895187.jpg

 

Yes, it looks highly staged, but I think this studio shot definitely shows some of your transition pouches sitting quite comfortably on a Mills garrison belt. The pouches in the picture are much slimmer than the 1917 pattern and of course lack the strips of fabric protruding from the sides. I'd slip the transition pouches onto a garrison belt, which might be thinner than the pistol belt, and see if you get a comfortable fit.

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mikes militaria

I sent a message to the seller to see what he Knew about it. My Field Gear ID book just lists it as a Garrison belt , obviously slimmer than the later 1917 Garrison belt with the larger pouches. It's not for a 1911 45 ACP clip as the last picture may represent. Also the "Transition" belt has a "T" closure as used on the later model belts not the round plate as in the earlier Garrison Belts. The pouch in question does has lift a dot pouches and not snaps as in the last picture. The earlier Round Plate Garrison belts have Eagle Snaps on their pouches and were designed to hold one stripper clip of 30-06 ammo.

 

The seller advertised it as a 45 revolver half moon clip pouch which I am inclined to believe after messing with it lately. However the earlier Garrison belts were made for the 03 rifle so why would they change the application? I am puzzled by the hanger shown in my Field Gear ID book because a 45 revolver holster slides on the belt. A bayonet would need a hanger but the 30-06 ammo doesn't quite fit the ammo pouch unless the pouches did shrink a little after all these years, and a 1911 holster would need a hanger but this pouch isn't big enough for a 45 clip. So I am confused. I will post what the seller says if he responds.

 

After reading all of this I am starting to think it is for an '03 30-06 ammo like the previous Garrison belts and is just a tight fit after non use over the years.

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mikes militaria

The seller replied . He said that 45 half moon clip ammo pouches is what he has known them as for years. He even had some come with ammo in them. Based on what I've read in my book listed above, it is a Garrison belt for a 1903 30-06. The pouches carry one stripper clip as the earlier 1910 Garrison belt, with a hanger for a bayonet. Not a revolver pouch as stated by the seller.

 

If anyone with a 1910 Garrison belt would care add info about how the stripper clips fit in their earlier model pouches with Eagle snaps, that would be helpful, but I think the answer is obvious after looking at the different models from 1910 to 1917. It's a tight fit but it fits.

 

My thanks to Celduin for you input and opinion.

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