Jump to content

M1 Garand Web Sling


Recommended Posts

I have a repro and there is no raised dimple on mine, and it is not parkerized either

 

I'm not saying yes or no, just saying I have one of the repros that are available, and this does not look like my repro

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest jimthompson502002

Authentic, yes. For about 1960. The GI web slings used during World War II

on Garands saw virtually NO combat, but they were a khaki/mustard color and

VERY different. The leather M1907 sling and variants thereof were the

salient slings during World War II, and virtually the only ones used in combat.

In about 45 years of looking, I have clearly identified precisely TWO photos

which MAY show M1 Garands (or even '03's or other rifles in U.S. service,

come to think of it!) anywhere near a combat zone showing web slings on the

rifles, and both of those are from Hodges' First Army, either very late in the

war, but more likely, well AFTER World War II. The sling shown here is

definitely not "65 years old", and bear in mind, that type of sling is still

being made and used.

post-3620-1216088799.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr. Thompson,

 

I was wondering if you could expound on what you mean by "VERY different" and why you think that this in not 65 years old. I was using Billy Pyle's "ORDNANCE TOOLS, ACCESSORIES & APPENDAGES OF THE M1 RIFLE" as a reference, granted the pictures are in black and white.

 

R,

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites
The GI web slings used during World War II on Garands saw virtually NO combat, but they were a khaki/mustard color and

VERY different. In about 45 years of looking, I have clearly identified precisely TWO photos which MAY show M1 Garands (or even '03's or other rifles in U.S. service, come to think of it!) anywhere near a combat zone showing web slings on the rifles, and both of those are from Hodges' First Army, either very late in the war, but more likely, well AFTER World War II.

 

Hello Jim:

 

First, welcome to the Forum. There is always a lot of interest here in the M-1 Rifle so it is good to have someone join up who has spent as much time as you have studying this weapon.

 

Second, in 45 years of searching you say that have found only two photos showing web slings on the M-1 rifle in the combat zone in WW2. Well, here are two more for you. I spent the last 10 minutes looking through my photo archive and came up with these for you. There are probably others in there but I thought these two would be sufficient for now.

 

The first one is of soldiers in the 30th Infantry Division preparing for a combat patrol. This photo was taken in February, 1945. Those look like web slings to me.

 

2_17_45_ed.jpg

 

The second photo is of a soldier who was a member of the 11th Armored Division in the ETO. Date and location of the photo is unknown. His rifle also appears to me to have a web sling on it.

 

11th_Armd_Div_ed.jpg

 

I agree that the M1907 leather sling was unquestionably the sling that saw the widest use in WW2. However, I also think there is considerable evidence, in photographs and otherwise, indicating that the web sling was used in combat in the latter stages of the war.

 

If you get a chance how about posting the two pics you mentioned that you have showing the slings?

 

Paul, that is a nice looking sling. In my opinion it is probably authentic. It looks identical to one that I have had on a Garand for more than 25 years.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

In both shots, an M1 looks like it has stock markings on the right side under the receiver. What would those be, rebuild marks?

Also two variations of the sling, with flat closure top and with the hump. Great shots.

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif

donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gif

donation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Collector,

 

In the top photo the letters look like initials to me and they look deep, too. It may just be the lighting but they seem to go right through the wood outer finish. The rebuild markings I've seen in pictures are usually on the opposite side of the stock and not that visible from a distance, just stamped like other cartouches, acceptance stamps, etc.

 

Further just yesterday I was reading an article by Ernie Pyle describing a group of guys just behind the front lines who were taking broken rifles and rebuilidng them. Ernie Pyle descirbes seeing lots of personalizations on stocks - one even had a picture behind plexiglass. I also read in Dick Winter's book that he put a cut in his stock for each "confirmed kill". My opinion is that those markings on the stocks are personalizations and not rebuild markings.

 

R,

Paul

 

P.S. Here's the excerpt from Ernie Pyle's book.

 

"Infantrymen, like soldiers everywhere, like to put names on their equipment. Just as a truck driver paints a name on his truck, so does a doughboy carve his name or initials in his rifle butt. I saw crude whittlings of initials in the hard walnut stocks and unbelievably craftsman like carvings of soldier's names, and many and many names of girls. The boys said the most heartbreaking rifle they'd found was one belonging to a soldier who had carved a hole about silver-dollar size and put his wife or girl's picture in it, and sealed it over with a crystal of Plexiglas. They didn't know who he was or what had happened to him. They only knew the rifle was repaired and somebody else was carrying it, picture and all."

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello Jim:

 

...Second, in 45 years of searching you say that have found only two photos showing web slings on the M-1 rifle in the combat zone in WW2. Well, here are two more for you...

Regards,

Charlie Flick

 

It looks like this guy a 01:58 minutes into this film http://www.realmilitaryflix.com/public/851.cfm has a web sling, too. What do you all think?

 

R,

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites
.... I spent the last 10 minutes looking through my photo archive and came up with these for you...

. ..The first one....

 

Charlie Flick, in re the first picture you posted, it was discussed on another forum a while ago, because of the sling used by the soldier at right: even after careful scrutiny, it really appears it has a "postwar" type buckle!

 

I have been collecting US militaria and weapons for over thirty years, and this is the first evidence I ever saw (including a myriad of Army manuals) on the wartime existence (and even distribution to units) of the "postwar" (so to speak, by now) buckle.

 

What do you all think?

 

I happen to own an unusual "postwar" sling which I always thought was just an uncommon manufacturing variation, but after looking at this picture I wonder if it could be an early example.

 

For jimthompson, really, M1 web slings saw more use during WWII than you may think, and based on photos, the "khaki" colored ones were an early minority, most were the type of "green" shown in the color photo of the one bought by the original poster

 

Paul, BTW: congrats, thats a very nice sling. Looks wartime original by all means, and if it's a replica, which I doubt, it's the best one ever made.

 

Cheers

Kilroy

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just glanced through US Army Uniforms Europe 1944-1945 by Arms and Armour Press and there are at least eight clear shots of the web sling in use on the M1 Rifle during fighting in Normandy and later. It was also used for both early and late bazookas.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies and photos.

 

Mr. Thompson: I hope that you realize that I am not doubting your opinion but rather I am hoping to learn something and didn't mean any disrespect by asking further questions. So if you happen to stop by please reply.

 

V/R

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites
I spent the last 10 minutes looking through my photo archive and came up with these for you. There are probably others in there but I thought these two would be sufficient for now.

 

And here's another of the 4th Division landing on June 6th...

gi_4th_1.jpg

gi_4th_2.jpg

 

The GI web slings used during World War II on Garands saw virtually NO combat

 

This is simply not true. The few photos posted show that they were used by front line units from 1944 onwards. There are more photos that prove it wasn't exactly a rare occurrence, especially towards the end of the war.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the sling in question. I have seen many original 43 and 44 dated web slings, of which S M Co is the most common. Most 43 examples have been in OD3 with OD7 becoming the predominant shade in 1944. I see nothing suspicious about the fittings, weave, colour or markings.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...

I just ran across this topic on web slings and the M! Garand. I have a very good friend Hank Zimmerman of E/506th 101st Airborne Bastogne. Hank was at my house a couple of months ago and I had my M1's out on a table. I asked him which sling his M1 had and he pointed to the web sling.

I told him that I thought the 101st had the leather ones. He said he didn't know what the other guys had but his was a web sling.

One thing to remember Hank was a replacement for Easy Co. before the went to Bastogne.

 

kelbrit

Link to post
Share on other sites

Page 190 of Stanton's "US Army Uniforms of WW2" has a picture of an infantryman of the 65th Div., March '45 holding an M1 with a web sling.

"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender!"

 

Winston Churchill

" Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans."

John Winston Lennon

 

 

donation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
I just ran across this topic on web slings and the M! Garand. I have a very good friend Hank Zimmerman of E/506th 101st Airborne Bastogne. Hank was at my house a couple of months ago and I had my M1's out on a table. I asked him which sling his M1 had and he pointed to the web sling.

I told him that I thought the 101st had the leather ones. He said he didn't know what the other guys had but his was a web sling.

One thing to remember Hank was a replacement for Easy Co. before the went to Bastogne.

 

kelbrit

 

Hank was born and spent his younger years in the same town that my dad grew up - Larksville PA. Do you know what street he lived on there?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a May 1945 M1 Garand rifle that has a 1945-dated canvas sling.

 

comp1.jpg

 

For some reason I could not see the sling won by paul1440, but, I would be curious to learn whether his sling looks like mine and vice versa. Here are some close up photos of my sling -

 

slingfullview.jpg

 

slinghookandfrictionbuckle.jpg

 

keeperandmetalcap.jpg

 

dimpleonmetalcap.jpg

 

Tim

donation2013.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
For some reason I could not see the sling won by paul1440, but, I would be curious to learn whether his sling looks like mine and vice versa. Here are some close up photos of my sling -

 

 

Tim

 

It's because I linked it to the seller's site that had the picture and he has since taken it down. I have a picture at home and will post it for you later.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The overwhelming evidence presented in this thread showing the use of web slings more than supports my opinion of avoiding Thompson's books. Just because someone is a published author does not make them a subject matter expert.

donation2008.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2013.gif

 

Looking for original photos and other items from the First World War US 77th Infantry Division.

Also interested in BAR and M1917A1 BMG related items.

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.